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TIBHAR MX-P review |
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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Posted: 02/05/2013 at 3:08pm |
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Hello forum's friends,
I will try to give you full imagine about the new TIBHAR MX-P (max) thickness rubber. Just today I received one piece used for test only, cut to TBS, so the rubber was like new. I glued it to my M.Maze. First I noticed this rubber is NOT MADE IN JAPAN!!!!!!!!! It is ESN German rubber, it is looking like andro rasant, plays like rasant, smells like rasant. It is hard, spinny, but not so much, because the hard sponge doesn't allow the long ball contact with the top-sheet. The rubber is not so fast on top spin strokes, it is easy to make a counter loop with on the table or in middle distance, it has a good feel, I mean you can feel how your rubber just bites the ball (too like rasant), while blocking and cutting requires increased attention. My personal preferences are not associated with this type of rubbers. I can't recommend this rubber to a players who are just starting table tennis. It is stamped on the rubber "PRO PLAYER VERSION". A players which are looking for more control-oriented rubber like me...will be just disappointed. This rubber is appropriate for aggressive players with great playing - technique in blocking and cutting. In my opinion, in spite of I am against T05, it is more better rubber for this style that MX-P is trying to join among the players. MX-P is little more faster than T05 I think (like andro rasant). But the safety/control is on higher level in T05. I missed to write the rubbers is with size for TBS and M.Maze (157/150), mx-p's weight is 49 grams. Too heavy!!! Because of the weight is possible the mx-p to be with more high density than rasant. For an appropriate blades for this rubber I can recommend blades like TBS/ALC/Viscaria. For difference between rasant and mx-p I can share also rasant is 2.1, while mx-p is 2.2mm I think. Finally, I am asking myself how long time we will buy the same factory products and we will be asking ourselves what is the speed or feel or spin or something other. Even the sponges of rasant and mx-p are almost equal...Only the rasant is 2.1 and mx-p is max (2.2). I hope I was useful for all mytt friends! |
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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kolev.. nice review.
i liked your question about same factory product. :) |
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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Keep your eyes closed, debraj And believe to the stickers JAPAN (they have been traveled around Japan ) on the rubbers made by Germany located company
I hope the rubbers I am waiting to become available on the market (SKITT 001 Acconda) are not made by ESN And I hope the next topic I will write about good non-ESN rubber. I have nothing against this company, but I think this is kind of cheating. The players have the full rights to know what they are using. I don't find my money on the road. This is the reason I posted this topic here and everyone who doesn't likes rasant, or vega pro, or another and hasn't an appropriate blade or skills for ESN rubbers just do not buy Tibhar Mx-P. Edited by kolevtt - 02/05/2013 at 7:30pm |
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Walee76
Member Joined: 11/03/2012 Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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@kolevtt, also for you:
I don´t know 100%, if the rubbers are "made in japan". For me, it was without doubt, that they come from Japan, because everything is same like Tenergy: The sticker on package with the thickness and colour of rubber. The rubber itself has original japanese size (it is higher than ESN-rubbers, which are 17 x 17 cm). And the 6-piece-box is also same like this from Butterfly and the sticker on this box, too.
So for me, it was doubtless, that the rubber is produced 100% in Japan. And also the feeling of playing this rubber, the spin, the contact time of ball on the rubber, it´s original japanese style. Because I was not 100% sure, where the rubber is produced, I asked Tibhar company. They told me, that they can give informations to all other Tibhar rubbers, where they are produced, for example Speedy Spin, Vari Spin, Nianmor, Grass (Japan), Grip-S (China), Genius, Aurus, 1Q and 5Q rubbers (germany), but they give no informations about their Evolution rubbers, where the rubber is produced or which parts of the complete rubber is produced in which country. Then I asked a person, who is very very close to Tibhar company. He told me, that it is a big secret and the parts of the rubber are not produced only in one country. It told me, it is a "HCP". I asked, what means "HCP" and he told, it is a "hybrid construction project", but he cannot say more about it. I inquired then again to Tibhar company, and argued, that the rubber size, the feeling and spin of the Evolution, the package with sticker and the 6-piece-box with sticker, everything is telling me, that the rubber comes from Japan. Tibhar told me again, that they can´t (don´t want) answer any question to these rubbers, everything is told on the description on the package and in onlinestores and catalogs and furthermore the product design must nothing mean concerning the production places, because one of the main markets for the Evolution rubbers is Japan, so it would be not surprising, if the product design is adapted especial for the japanese market. I've been thinking for some time about their answer and I think they are right, because for sure, the most important thing is, that a rubber is playing very good and has a great feeling and the rubber is not better or worse, if it is produced in Hongkong, France, Germany, Japan, USA or India and also the name of a product is only important for marketing, but does not change the performance of a rubber (so I would like playing with the Evolution rubber same, if it would be called "elephant 0:11"-rubber ;)). We table tennis player, there happens too much in our head and sometimes we think about things, which are not really important and forget the really important things. And also to you, kolevtt: Sorry, but if you really think, that Andro Rasant and Tibhar Evolution MX-P are the same rubbers, you really don´t know so much about rubbers or/and you are no good skilled player.
Andro Rasant is softer than MX-P, I think Rasant has 44-45° sponge hardness and MX-P has 47-48°.
It is stupid, to think, that all rubbers from ESN in one generation, are all the same.
Tibhar Nimbus Sound, Nimbus Soft, Nimbus Medium, Nimbus
Andro Plasma 380, Plasma 430, Plasma 470
Donic Coppa Silver, Sonex JP Gold, Gold
Joola Energy X-Soft, Energy Xtra, Energy
Tibhar Sinus Sound, Sinus Alpha, Sinus
Andro Roxon 450, Roxon 500
Donic Platin Soft, Platin
Joola Express X-Soft, Express One, Express Two
Tibhar Genius+ Optimum Sound, Genius Sound, Genius+ Optimum, Genius, Aurus Sound, Aurus Soft, Aurus
Andro Hexer Powersponge, Hexer Duro, Hexer+, Hexer, Hexer HD
Donic Baracuda Big Slam, Baracuda, Acuda S1 Turbo, S1, S2, S3, Coppa X1, X2, X3
Joola Xplode Sensitive, Xplode
Adidas P7, P5, P3, R6, R4
Xiom Vega Pro, Vega Asia, Vega Europe, Vega Elite, Omega Pro, Omega Asia, Omega Europe, Omega Elite
Tibhar 1Q, 1Q-XD, 5Q
Andro Rasant
Donic Bluefire M1, M2, M3
Joola Rhyzm 375, Rhyzm 425, Rhyzm
Adidas Tenzone, Tenzone SF
Xiom Sigma Pro, Sigma Europe, ...
These all rubbers are not all the same. Sometimes you´ll find nearly identic rubbers, some are not equal and some are completly different, some have alone-standing features.
If you really think, that it does not matter, which rubber from each "family / generation" you choose, your really have no feeling in your hand.
I recommend to everybody, to test by your self Andro Rasant and Tibhar Evolution MX-P and compare both rubbers and you will see significant differences. I tried both rubbers and I know what I am talking, so try it and you will see and notice, what I wrote here.
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haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
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I think customers have a right to know where the product is made. In some countries it may well be Law to mark the product with a "made in XXX".
Usually when a rubber is not marked as such, it means it's made in China.... it does not sound like this one is though... |
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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Woowww Thank you for your long explanation!
I just shared my own impressions with the community here! So the ESN have been sent their topsheet to Japan and the people there just glued the topsheet on their japanese or another made sponges. Of course everyone can plays what he wants... and you are right! Thank you once again for your info! |
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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Thanks and for haggisv!
It seems other situation is possible - the sponges are imported from China to Japan, like the meaning of haggisv. And for what is the all imitation of activity? Who will be impressed? If you don't know - I will tell you...here in Bulgaria now there is a new factory for assembling chinese cars. And all the parts are chinese for now I think. But if the shops are selling these cars in another market, on the cars you won't see MADE IN CHINA, but you will see MADE IN EU/BG, probably. |
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GoldenDragoon
Silver Member Joined: 01/09/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 769 |
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I had a brand new Rasant, El-P and M2 in front of me just the other day and I thought the EL-P sponge looked identical to the Rasant.
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Blade: Nexy Spartacus FL 84g
FH: Evolution FX-P Max Blk BH: Evolution EL-P 1.9 Red |
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Walee76
Member Joined: 11/03/2012 Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Yes, but you could never know, because "made in" can mean several things:
- 100% "made in Germany" or "made in Japan", if 100% of the product is produced in one of these countrys!?
- "made in Germany" or "made in Japan", if the sponge was produced in germany and the topsheet was produced in japan!?
- "made in France", if the sponge was produced in germany and the topsheet was produced in japan and they glue it together in france!?
- "made in germany", if the sponge was produced in japan and the topsheet was produced in japan and they glue it together in germany!?
- "made in japan", if the sponge was produced in germany and the topsheet was produced in germany and they glue it together in japan!?
- "made in japan", if the 51% of the product (51% of all, sponge, topsheet, packaging, stickers, 6-pieces-box, etc.) was produced in japan or 51% of the work was done in japan (glueing sponge and topsheet together, putting the rubber in the packaging, putting stickers on the packaging, putting the rubber in his packaging into the 6-piece-box, etc.)
- "made in germany", if the 51% of the product (51% of all, sponge, topsheet, packaging, stickers, 6-pieces-box, etc.) was produced in germany or 51% of the work was done in germany (glueing sponge and topsheet together, putting the rubber in the packaging, putting stickers on the packaging, putting the rubber in his packaging into the 6-piece-box, etc.)
- ...
- ...
- ...
...think about re-imports, etc.
It is all a question of definition.
And what advantage do you have, if the rubber is 100% made in japan, 100% made in germany or 50% japan / 50% germany!? It will make no difference, even if the rubber is "made in north-korea or south-africa, because the only important thing is, that the rubber is good. And I think this is without doubt, if you read all reviews, that nearly everybody says, the rubber has a good spin and is very good. Will the rubber not be anymore very good, if you would know, that the production had been made in another country!? Would it be a sh*t rubber, if you would know, the rubber is "made in brazil" or "made in new zealand"!?
I think, it should be the right of tibhar company, (completly independent of that, in which country the rubber was produced), to design their product, packaging and stickers as they want, to have the maximum success on the japanese market, if they want to succeed especially there with this rubber.
It is normal, to translate important parts of products into this language, on which market you want to land. If Tibhar company had the target, to land with the Evolution rubbers especially on the russian market, you could be sure, that there would be russian translations on the rubber and rubber packaging and the design would be 100% like the russians are used to and love it.
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Walee76
Member Joined: 11/03/2012 Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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I think, the Rasant and the M2 are much closer to the EL-P, that to the MX-P. Between Rasant, M2 and MX-P is a much bigger difference.
You understand what I mean!?
The REALLY IMPORTANT thing is only, if the product is good or not! Nothing else matters. If I will try a new blade, "made in sweden" or "made in japan" and this blade would be not good for me, it helps me nothing, that the blade comes from a traditonal blade-producing-country.
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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Walee76 - thank you once again for your explanation, but I think we all are a smart persons and we clearly understood your meaning. I just shared my experience with the "new" tibhar rubber and you made so long and repeated in its meaning explanation, that I felt you are thinking I am born in the forest...
Let me ask you something as friend to friend. If you know the advantages of the old massive German cars and you are able to buy new luxory car from the same brand - would you buy a new "German"car with "french" motor, made in Morocco, with integrated installation from Zimbabwe, chinese wheels and tyres, brakes and body parts, turkish non-original leather.......with stamp and logo of the same GREAT GERMAN BRAND for tooooooooooooo high price? So - I will tell you I won't buy that kind of a german car for toooooooooooo high price!!! I understand you liked this rubber very much, it is your choice. But I think If I knew it is only with ESN topsheet - I won't buy this rubber. Okay? Thank you! |
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Baal
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This is what I have suspected all along--at least as a possiblity--that as with the Project 12 rubber from Soulspin, the sponge, top sheet, and possibly even final gluing assembly are all done in different places. Anyway, I also don't care where they make it if it is good and preferably cheaper than Tenergy. Edited by Baal - 02/05/2013 at 11:39pm |
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vutiendat1337
Gold Member Joined: 10/25/2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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As far as I know, that prices for Evolution series is still quite steep. I know it's 20 bucks cheaper than Tenergy, though. For what is worth, based on the reviews and impressions, for me Bluefire from Tibike or ttnpp is still the best deal out there
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peter79
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Thanks Kolevtt for this info. There's no other rubber will plays exactly the same to tenergy. So for tenergy lover, just buy tenergy rather than spend more money to find any other rubber that plays the same.
Even different weight of tenergy will play a bit different. |
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Andro Wanokiwami AO Offensive 83 gr
H3 National Orange 40 deg 2.2 Baracuda Max 182 Gr |
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Baal
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$50 from Dandoy. That's $30 less than T05, per side, and probably the price will come down. Bluefire still a little cheaper for the time being, but a little competition is a good thing. TTNPP has Bluefire for $38, and Dandoy for $41. I personally think MX-P is better than the Bluefire rubbers I have tried, but BF is not bad. Edited by Baal - 02/06/2013 at 12:26am |
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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Still the topsheet of T-gy is one of the best, but the sponge - I like very much Aurus Soft!
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Mickael
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2011 Location: World Status: Offline Points: 794 |
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All andro players and donic players are using tenergy, except samsonov is using evolution rubbers. Hope these players could replace tenergy so we could do. Note that they train 40 hours a week we can't do that, if these rubbers are really good we would have seen them using them. I think
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Butterfly Fransizka ZLC FL
Butterfly Dignics 05 2.1 FH Butterfly Tenergy 05 1.9 BH |
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vutiendat1337
Gold Member Joined: 10/25/2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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In the recent interview with Patrick Baum conducted by ttimpossible. Patty said that he's using Bluefire series. I would think twice to take this info for granted but who knows, he might have been saying the truth
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Imago
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This would be the Russian design for Tibhar Evolution RU-S
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vic#74
Super Member Joined: 07/26/2010 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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Really? Funny
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ITC Premier XR
Nittaku Sieger Pk50 Tibhar Evolution EL-S |
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56787&title=fs-rubbes-and-blades-tibhar-butterflytsp-new
This is the link you can buy a new sheet of Tibhar's rubbers for good price if you want to test. The choice for the model is yours. I warrant for this seller. |
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carmelomaf
Silver Member Joined: 07/18/2009 Location: Munich Status: Offline Points: 920 |
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it is just my opinion/imagination, I have no proof
but looking and playing the rubbers ( I played already all three version) here are my possible options:
1. the sponge is from ESN, the Topsheet from China and they are assembled and tuned by ESN 2. the sponge is from ESN, the Topsheet from China and they are assembled and tuned in China 3. the sponge is from ESN, the Topsheet from Japan and they are assembled and tuned in China (quite possible) 3. the sponge is from ESN, the Topsheet from China and they are assembled and tuned in Japan
For me the sponge is from ESN and playing the rubbers I have somehow the feeling to play with a non tacky china rubber , especially during the first 2 or 3 tranings
as I already wrote down, I have no proof or information about I’m just speculating about |
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Tibhar MX-P 50 Max| BTY Boll ALC FL | Tibhar MX-S Max
an Italian playing TT in Germany |
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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Lot of people tested EVOLUTION rubbers think the rubber is not made in japan.
Because "made in japan" means just higher quality. Samsonov plays what the manager gave him. We all are familiar Samsonov played the last EC in Poland with T05, it's not kind of secret, because it is visible in the video from the tournament. I saw and Karakasevich is using T05 by himself. Too pity he is injured now, but I wish him to return more stronger after time and do not refuse participation in tournaments, I will miss his unbelievable backhand!!!! Go Sale!!!You are the man!!! Finally, I doubt this rubber will be like new in the hand of Samsonov after 2-3 hours hard counter-loops. Good luck to all tt friends in the future testing of a new equipment! |
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NextLevel
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http://www.timtts.be now has it too for 35 Euros if you live outside the US, VAT free, shipping free. That is about $50 too.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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carmelomaf
Silver Member Joined: 07/18/2009 Location: Munich Status: Offline Points: 920 |
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show me a picture please Edited by carmelomaf - 02/06/2013 at 8:52am |
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Tibhar MX-P 50 Max| BTY Boll ALC FL | Tibhar MX-S Max
an Italian playing TT in Germany |
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roger_rabbit
Member Joined: 03/12/2010 Location: Western Europe Status: Offline Points: 83 |
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Hi, I found these Tibhar MX-P pics from german table tennis forum.
This is after 3 weeks, and 25 hours of playing time. http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/3147/8jxgaeei_jpg.htm http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/3147/ortvrhec_jpg.htm Make your own opinion. PS: The rubber is cleaned. White dots are from the mobile cam(dusts) |
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Main: Boll ALC FL 93g, FH: H3 Prov 39d bl. BH: T80 1.9 red
Spare: Boll Spirit AN black Tag 90g, FH: H3N Prov. 40d bl. BH: T80 1.9 red |
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cmetsbeltran15
Platinum Member Joined: 01/16/2006 Location: (ง ͠ ͠° ل͜ °)ง Status: Offline Points: 2427 |
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LOL
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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Yes, I am not so good skilled player (around 2400 USATT) and I don't understand table tennis equipment like you (If you are Professor, I am only Bachelor in Table Tennis).
Walee76 - you don't need to be Samsonov to see that these rubbers are not the same but they are similiar. Edited by kolevtt - 02/06/2013 at 1:17pm |
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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why do we get emotional in handling contradictions? why can't we have a objective and spirited debate without having to disrespect a person with conflicting views?
Forums are for sharing different opinions. Can we learn to differ as 'friendly' 'adults'?
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AMonteiro
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I belive this rubber is 100% made by ESN. This japanese letters and hybrid project is just to get Tenergy users at least to try it..
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Dynaryz AGR /Yasaka Goiabao 5 / Dynaryz AGR
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