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Tibhar New Poly 40+ ball review |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I am pretty sure that anyone in the top 100 in the world already has sufficient spin-reading skills that this ball would not help them much. But I still like the idea. |
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in2spin
Silver Member Joined: 12/09/2008 Status: Offline Points: 988 |
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i have for long thought that putting lines on the ball would be a cool thing.....then, finally newbies or unknowing viewers would get some semblance of the tremendous amount of spin that is happening
:)
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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I think it's a fantastic idea, something that is completely opposite of what ITTF has tried to do to enhance the chances of upsetting Chinese domination anyway they can (e.g. 11-pts games). It's no wonder this 2-color ball idea did not come from the ITTF. |
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Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
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ZingyDNA
Platinum Member Joined: 09/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2373 |
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If the ball is spinning fast enough, which happens most of the time, the 2-color ball won't help you read the spin much, will it? You just know it's spinning fast, but not which way it's spinning. You just see a blur of mixture of white and orange
On the other hand, it should make the spin very clear in ultra slow motion Edited by ZingyDNA - 07/17/2014 at 4:04pm |
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vvk1
Gold Member Joined: 11/14/2009 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1925 |
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Wouldn't it make lack of spin quite clear?
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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Crystal. Less mistakes will result. |
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Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
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ZingyDNA
Platinum Member Joined: 09/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2373 |
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True. Backspin/No spin combo serve won't work any more. And not just the serves, nothing balls in the rally are also easily spotted. Is this further dumbing down the sport or making it more spectator friendly Edited by ZingyDNA - 07/17/2014 at 5:12pm |
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ZingyDNA
Platinum Member Joined: 09/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2373 |
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Igor, I don't think you understand what we are saying. If the balls are 2-colored, you won't be tricked by nothing balls that appear spinning fast.
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mts388
Platinum Member Joined: 03/21/2014 Location: Sonora CA Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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I think that he actually is joking.
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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Please, don't put any borders of the sense of humor here
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I deleted a grotesquely inappropriate comment. Certain things are over the line, at least on an English language forum.
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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Discussion is going too much off the topic, combined with political conclusions from just a joke.
Come back to the plastic balls topic. |
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popperlocker
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1753 |
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Not sure about this. The Chinese and French are known for using their borderline illegal services(hidden and toss). Also, the Chinese rely on the 3rd ball kill... If anything, the German team may take over China.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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It would make dead-ball serves pretty useless, but the thing I notice about high level serves (and something Eric Owens used to spend a lot of time teaching me) is that the key to sneaky serving is not to serve dead. It is to have serves that are heavy spin and light spin (but not dead), so opponent can't use label to see spin. Probably both those kinds of serves will just look like a light yellow blur with these balls. The goal of high-level serving isn't to get people to miss, it is to have receiver hit a weak return, which for someone in the top 100 in the world only needs to be off by a few centimeters.
The receiver has to respect the possibility that you may be serving very heavy, but if they over compensate, they are hosed. (There is a lot more to good serving than just this, but this is a pretty common strategy, and I have seen Ma Lin destroy people using only this). |
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hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
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I think the 2 tone ball will hurt defensive players more than anything. If you are a chopper and depend on spin variation, this will help limit the mistakes by the attacker. It will be more obvious how much or little spin is on the ball.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Above a relatively small number of revs/second it will like the same no matter how much spin there is, so maybe not much effect overall.
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lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
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38 MM ball high spin
40 MM Ball medium spin 40+ MM ball Low spin the direction of the game seems clear how one color's or marks the ball seems to be a minor issue.
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PierreAd
Member Joined: 06/06/2014 Location: Lyon, France Status: Offline Points: 27 |
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Well, using a two-colours balls goes in the same direction : it would be easier for the opponent to judge the rotation of the ball (and thus, less errors and longer rallies). |
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lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
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If the direction of the TT game is to make it easier to return the ball rather then generate a winning stroke by either player for an immediate winner or that causes the opponent to make an outright error or a weak return then the entire structure of the game should be changed including serve, points and equipment that help/encourage players to return balls for longer rallies. Maybe a time limit say a rally has to last 5 minutes before a player can make a point.
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popperlocker
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1753 |
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I don't know about you, but I can't watch 38mm games. Timo vs Waldner was like watching paint dry, there were more unforced errors than winners. The game should have been changed to "Pick ball off the ground" 40mm games are a little better, but still has a good serving of unforced errors. The Chinese even prefer to watch Basketball, Tennis, and Soccer over TT. What if basketball players used water balloons instead of a basketball? What if Tennis players used a rubics cube as a ball? What if soccer players used golf balls instead of soccer balls? 38mm TT was like using Rubics Cube Tennis, like watching two blind children play.
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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We used a 2-color ball in practice about 3 weeks ago. The other guy played with long pips on his BH. He chopped and blocked off the table. It was definitely easy to see his rotational changes to the ball in rallies. |
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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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What about clothes with this double/triple colored ball ?
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I played with some of the Joola 40+ ITTF approved plastic balls today. It seems most likely they are made in the same factory as the Tibhar ones, although I don't actually know this for a fact.
They were nicely round, appeared slightly easier to see, had a very hard feeling -- you really felt the contact with the blade. The bounce was nice on our our somewhat old Tibhar Smash 28 tables. I wouldn't say they sounded exactly like celluloid balls, but the sound was not anywhere near as awful as some of the plastic balls making the rounds a few months ago. They don't sound broken. I think I agree with other people in that it may be slightly harder to get heavy spin on the ball, either serving or looping, I played with a couple of 2400+ players today and it may just be imagination but it seemed like their spin was not quite so intimidating. All in all, though, to my great surprise, seeing them for the first time, I quite liked them. (I was very critical of ITTF for doing this change). I really don't think people will take too long to adjust, and I for one, based on what I have seen so far, will not make any equipment change for now. If later I decide to make a change, it will not be anything drastic. I suspect people will adjust to whatever changes there are quite quickly, probably without having to change blade or rubber. This applies not just to equipment but also to technique. I seemed to do better when I actually tried to not hit quite so hard. I need to keep an eye on that. It is not exactly the same as what we have had for last ten years or so, but nowhere near as big an adjustment as going from 38 to 40 mm. Next time I play I am going to pull one out without telling anyone and see if my practice partner notices anything at all. |
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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Thanks Baal, may be there is a general difference in the quality of these and TIBHAR 40+ if you can not find a serious difference between the playing skills with the old and new ball.
I am not sure who is producing these balls you have tested, but it is not possible to feel almost the same these factors - spin and speed during play. Of course most of the professionals will stay with their current equipment until something new comes on the market. Tenergy 101 for example. Or Rasant Twin Turbo. I am sure with the new materials the ball will be increased by ITTF once again in the next 5 years. May be up to 42-43mm. |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I definitely did not see the production flaws that you documented above for the Tibhar balls. Time will tell how common that problem is, maybe I just got lucky. Also, it occurs to me that I have not examined all six balls that came in the package, just two of them.
I played today for about an hour. Next time I will play longer, will learn more. So far, nowhere near as awful as I feared. I just went back and read the very first post on this thread. I would say that is exactly what I would say too based on what I saw today. One thing I wonder, is given that I have read this comment about these balls in more than one place, did that subconsciously alter my perception? Edit. It says Made in China on the Joola box. Edit 2. None of the six balls in my box have the problems Kolev found in his sample of Tibhar balls. Mine were shipped by Megaspin. |
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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Well, that's okay, really.
I played with may be two levels more lower player and I just lost a game because nothing worked as well with the Tibhar 40+ balls. Nobody liked here these Tibhar 40+ balls as we all noticed they are for other kind of table tennis. Beer Pong, for example. I am currently waiting to see these Joola Super-P balls, it will be really interesting to check their skills. |
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Hans Regenkurt
Silver Member Joined: 08/12/2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 826 |
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I had a word with my local Tibhar supplier to find out what is the date on the seamed balls they have in stock and I was shocked to hear that the latest batch they got recently is from last June. It is almost a year since since then.
Has anyone encountered a more recent batch of those balls? |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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No.
It is possible that Tibhar, Joola, Donic, Stiga, and other companies that have been selling re-labeled DHS balls are waiting on the newest DHS balls to come out (the so-called D40+) and then they will start putting their names on those. They will be made with a new type of plastic and a new seam-sealing technology that may be similar to what Nittaku is using. Zeio dug up a few patents that suggest that, anyway. It is also possible that many companies were as upset about the quality of the Chinese seamed balls as many of us here. That is probably why Tibhar started marketing seamless balls as well. Will these D40 balls be better? Well they certainly can't be worse! So I try to stay hopeful. Ideally they would be pretty much like the Nittaku Japan balls. By the way, I did manage to obtain some DHS balls with a November manufacture date. They are rounder. But in terms of bounce, they are as bad as ever. I didn't find out if they are more durable because I didn't want to play with them because of the low bounce. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Ovtcharov's persistent complaints are all I need to know. His attitude to the ball with be the simplest barometer of change.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Yep. He speaks for all of us on this.
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