What defines an allround style?

What defines an allround style? How can we recognize or distinguish it from being either a type of defensive style or offensive style?

Does the use of specific equipment dictate the play style? Do all allround players only use inverted rubber and play like Mikael Appelgren? If one were to use short pips mixing offensive hits and defensive chops can this be considered allround?

Other styles are more obvious. Offensive players attack and defensive players chop. Within each of both of those categories there are subcategories such as how Koji Matsushita is closer to a classical defensive style and Joo Saehyuk is closer to a modern defensive style. Ma Long is a power looper offensive style and Vladimir Samsonov is a controlled offensive style and so on.

Do these categories exist for the allround style? On an even more extreme perspective, does the allround style even exist at all or are we all just playing as some type of defensive or offensive style?

This isn't something discussed as often as I think it should be. What do you all think?

frogger wrote: This style usually plays close/mid with the occasional back court medium speed loop or lobb. Just my 2 cents.

What about Mikael Appelgren? He's often the go to player when referring to an allround style and Donic has allround blades named after him because of that. He plays a mid to long distance game.

frogger wrote: Appelgren was an away from table double wing looper. You must remember also that was back in the speed glue era when medium speed blades and max thickness speed glued rubber where the weapon of choice for Appelgren's style. Allround style like I said is rare at that level but some elements can be seen.

Ok I can see what you are saying.

Would you go so far as saying an allround style means you're just not good enough for one specific style?

someone who is equally comfortable defending and attacking???

JohnnyChop wrote: someone who is equally comfortable defending and attacking??? i normally defines it by the equipment they use

What equipment would that be?

GeneralSpecific wrote: Baal, what makes you discount chopping from an allround style over using lobs. What about Stephane Ouiache? He has all of those characteristics of Appelgren, Maze etc but still he incorporates chopping with his lobs and topspins. Take a look.

Nice.  I hadn't seen him before.  But yes, definitely that's what I would call all-around.  Fun to watch.  Thanks for posting.  Not too many like him out there.

At the top level, all the players are all round attackers.  The closest to an allround style is Mizutani, who steps back to fish and lob sometimes without being forced into it per se.

At the top level, the problem with chopping or defensive play in general is that it is too easy to drive through and hands over the initiative to your opponent.  To use it as a consistent weapon, your opponent has to have serious issues dealing with your play, which does happen on occasion, but the lack of control of the point doesn't encourage most good attackers (who are control freaks) to play that way.

NextLevel wrote: At the top level, all the players are all round attackers.  The closest to an allround style is Mizutani, who steps back to fish and lob sometimes without being forced into it per se. At the top level, the problem with chopping or defensive play in general is that it is too easy to drive through and hands over the initiative to your opponent.  To use it as a consistent weapon, your opponent has to have serious issues dealing with your play, which does happen on occasion, but the lack of control of the point doesn't encourage most good attackers (who are control freaks) to play that way.

Yes, that's what I think too, he is kind of the modern version of Appelgren, although maybe a few exceptions.  Kim Taek Soo or  Ryu Seung-min are fairly uni-dimensional but great at what they do.  And the French guy Gen Spec posted above seems pretty interesting.  Maybe also the Argentinan guy from a few years back, Liu Song.

frogger wrote: This style player uses a more mild approach to gaining points with a mix of offensive and defensive strategy. Usually this style is found at beginner and intermediate levels where safety and keeping the ball in play is important. Not usually seen at top levels except for chopper/loopers, even then I wouldn't say that is a quasi allround style but has some elements of an allround game. These players would rather push or chop a ball back than try to loop or fast drive the ball. They usually wait for the right ball to attack and do not take as many chances to end the point. They rely more on spin variation than speed or power. This style usually plays close/mid with the occasional back court medium speed loop or lobb. Just my 2 cents.

I classify allround as being a control sort of player,that utilizes offensive and defensive in the game.Eg.I would say that instead of calling Mizutani offensive,he is allround.

vutiendat1337 wrote: Zhang Jike and Fan Zhendong come to mind as very all-round and complete players. They can attack on both wings, FH or BH, short game, over the table or mid-distance, counter-loop or block, with good placement yet powerful shots. In my mind, I consider them to have the capacity to win a point utilizing any of the techniques above with the same success probability. Even Dima in his own right can be considered all-round player. Ma Long, unless firing with his FH and placing well, can't win a point (generalizing here), relatively weak BH and not a strong blocker. Timo Boll, unless positioning himself well and hitting his spinny loops and placing the ball well both short-game or mid-distance, can't win a point. If he has to play defensively - blocking or lobbing, he's done for. Considerably weak BH, he can only open and hit a good counter once in a while but that's about it. Mizutani, not a complete player, poor short game, virtually no over the table BH or mid-distance (although he's been improving upon that, still miles to go), ok counter-looping FH, strong lobbing skills. definitely more on the defensive side of offensive players.

This is a bunch of nonsense. Ma Long actually plays a more all round game in terms of stroke variety than the others - Ma Long can block for significant portions of a match on both sides when in the mood. But other than Mizutani, none of the players will lob as a point winning strategy.

They all have excellent short and over the table games. The problem is that none of them like to be at the mercy of their opponents so they don't play defense to win points as a strategy (with Mizutani as the exception).

Edited by NextLevel - 12/04/2014 at 1:30pm

NextLevel wrote: This is a bunch of nonsense. Ma Long actually plays a more all round game in terms of stroke variety than the others - Ma Long can block for significant portions of a match on both sides when in the mood. But other than Mizutani, none of the players will lob as a point winning strategy. They all have excellent short and over the table games. The problem is that none of them like to be at the mercy of their opponents so they don't play defense to win points as a strategy (with Mizutani as the exception).

When I hear allround style, I think of a player that will mix it up a bit and win more points with control and placement rather than relying heavily on power.  

To me an all round player is one who doesn't display obvious dominance in either an attack or defence style...

Not necessarily if they can do all of the standard strokes...

Ma long does chop, but he's not a defender and the Joo See Hyuk attack is menacing when he lets loose...

But we would all describe their styles as Attacker and Defender, respectively due to their dominant style...

mjamja wrote: Basic styles are: Looping Hitting Blocking Chopping (underspin defense) Fishing/Lobbing (topspin defense) It is actually a little more complicated since a player has two wings and there can be a separate style for each wing.  So you get things like 2-wing looper 1-wing looper/1-wing blocker 1-wing looper/1-wing chopper (modern defender who does not chop much with Fh) To me an all-around player is one who regularly uses a mix of these styles in a match without being forced to do so.  For example they sometimes might respond to long serves by looping and other times by backing off and chopping.  Or sometimes they might choose to let their opponent open and try to block them down while other times they would let them open, but retreat early and immediately start fishing.   Equipment does play a role.  It is difficult to be an all-around player with long pips (and maybe with medium pips).  They do not have the versatility in spin generation needed to play a full range of shots.  Of course if one was adept at attacking with the pips then they could play something close to an all-around game even though they are unable to hit some of the shots possible with inverted rubber. Mark

OK.  Nicely put.  Now, besides the French guy posted above, who can you name who plays like this at an international level?