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Samsonov beaten..... by senior citizen?? |
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2337 |
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Posted: 03/07/2015 at 3:40am |
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Not true. Players that love the sport and the social interaction do anything they want. Tournaments are not life and death. They are simply a part of enjoying the sport. |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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I notice you've edited some of the comments above. If anyone is serious about ascertaining WJJ's USATT rating, start with comparing opponents in pushblocker's video who're about 2200 or so to guys WJJ easily beats in the numerous matches online and see if they're anywhere near the same level.
I can't see how anyone who's ever watched higher level TT can claim this guy is <2300. |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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He plays in street cloths in all of one other video out of dozens and a similarly casual match at that. But I guess it's not an error in your mind if you can't even be bothered with the most basic verification for all these claims.
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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============================= I admitted my error, but you didn't. One of these days you will meet your opponent and keep on insulting one another - hope you will have a good time. Good bye.
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skip3119
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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Sure, just like whether that match was 3-0 this is a matter of fact easily determined by the most casual glance at the videos linked.
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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Yes, that's his usual dress when playing. He didn't dress any different when playing Li Zhi-Ming.
I admitted that I made a mistake that I did not check the score before I posted. But you failed to admit that that match was important to WJJ because it was a nation-wide LP tourney - it would affect his business and reputation. Then you kept nailing someone's mistake after someone has already admitted his error. What a guy. I should have taken someone's recommendation to ignore such a person. It is in your gene, no one can help you. Edited by skip3119 - 03/06/2015 at 5:24pm |
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skip3119
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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Apparently you watched that video so carefully it became a 3-0 beating in your mind, plus those thick street cloth same as Samsonov in the OP vid must've disappeared, too, and it became a serious match.
> About WJJ’s dress during play, you definitely have not watched many WJJ’s videos, he is old and thus has slow metabolism, that’s the dress he normally wears to play.) There's several related videos in your own Youku link, plus those from mine, plus dozens demonstrating his usual dress for matches here: http://www.soku.com/search_video/q_%E9%BB%84%E5%BB%BA%E7%96%86. So anyone interested can very simply determine for themselves if any of these claims you're making are true. Edited by AgentHEX - 03/06/2015 at 5:03pm |
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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AgentHEX said: Did
you even watch the video.
AgentHEX has no idea how that video even got into this forum. I’ll fill you in. When ZingyDNA mentioned that he remembered he saw a video that WJJ was beaten by Li Zhi-Ming, I was the one who requested ZingyDNA to find it. He kindly found and posted it. It is ridiculous to even doubt whether I watched that video. (Btw, I watched several times.) AgentHEX has no idea as to how important that tourney is because he can not read Chinese. It was a special event dedicated to all LP players nation-wide. WJJ teaches how to play with LP, holding many LP training camps and has many LP training videos on the web and is known as the LP master in China – he couldn’t afford to lose, as it would affect his reputation and business. AgentHEX has absolutely no idea as to how important of that tourney is to WJJ. It is ridiculous for him to think that WJJ was taking it lightly as Samsonov in a demo. AgentHEX
said: “I wouldn't throw out comment on any match that I have never
watched.” (Refers about me.) I was the one who asked ZingyDNA to
find that video, how could I didn’t even watch it. This forum has this subject topics about this long time ago, it was so long ago my memory failed me -
I made a mistake and said it was 3-0. The
actual result was 3-2 after replaying the said video. Earlier link didn’t work, but this one does. WJJ vs Li Zhi-Ming (usatt 2270):
11-5, 8-11, 12-10,
2-11, 3-11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PELuZGUvEnk ====================================== Self-criticism: This forum discussed WJJ, and has a video of the said match – I just remembered that Li Zhi-Ming won handily and said it was 3-0. That’s my error, actually it was 3-2. (I learned a lesson here, next time I will check the facts first rather than just depend on memory only). AgentHEX failed to appreciate how important that nation-wide LP Tourney held in Shanxi Province was to WJJ – affecting his business and his prestige (he teaches how to play with LP, holds LP training camps, has many LP video lessons on the web), and thus ridiculously equate Samsonov’s playing in the demo to WJJ’s in a real tournament. (About WJJ’s dress during play, you definitely have not watched many WJJ’s videos, he is old and thus has slow metabolism, that’s the dress he normally wears to play.) AgentHEX just over-glorified LP’s effectiveness. More likely than not that I have watched more LP matches than AgentHEX. I actually play with LP for a number of years, and did win a couple of matches over opponents rated 300 points above me. (I learned from this forum that when a player gets old, and can not move fast, may be its time to try LP). But LP has its limits, when a USATT 2600+ player who will have no problems with LP, much less for Samsonov. As to AgentHEX opinion that any one thinks WJJ is less than 2300 is clueless. You know what? People can also say that anyone thinks WJJ worth more than 2300 is just as clueless, if not more. (It is just personal opinion, one side can never say that the other side is clueless. We just have to respect that people have different opinions.) Clueless folks saying other folks are clueless is not an uncommon event here. Edited by skip3119 - 03/06/2015 at 3:03pm |
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skip3119
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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These aren't fully retired guys given their age and the fact they still play the tournament scene. You can judge the quality of their play (footwork, short game, strokes) from the link above with the usual disclaimer expert LP game makes opponents look bad. There are other WJJ vids on the web against guys who appear to be system-trained.
The guy mentioned who managed to beat WJJ is significantly above 2500 and does well against that style. He was the last player in a WJJ vs "high-level" invitational and WJJ was also visibly tired at that point. |
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ZingyDNA
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I think the average provincial player in China is "only" about 2600 USATT. Very few above 2700. Some weaker provinces may not even have 2600+ players. Just look at the imports in the US. So a retired provincial player may very well be 2300 or below, depending on how long they have been out of full time practice. |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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>
Im sure Huang Jian Jiang could beat many 2400 players
In the longer vid from my link above the commentator mentions he's competitive with provincial and lower-level national players. This guy used to play amateur circuit in Beijing with plenty of high level amateur and ex-prov competition and won tournaments. In the same video he clowns one ex-prov player and get beat by another (Ma Lin like guy who basically won on 3rd/4th ball). These are not anywhere near 2300 players. Edited by AgentHEX - 03/04/2015 at 4:04pm |
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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Im sure Huang Jian Jiang could beat many 2400 players, he has a dangerouse style that effects some loopers timing but overall he is a old mall player wearing warm clothing and having fun
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
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*_strataras_*
Gold Member Joined: 04/19/2010 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1156 |
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Ofc it was a match just for fun , something like exhibition.Nothing to believe that Samsonov wanted to win and he lost finally!
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kakapo
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2013 Location: Mordor Status: Offline Points: 3430 |
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Each time I go back to China, I play with this kind of players in the building where my family in law lives.
Old guys who sometimes have never played in competition but they play 2 hours a day for many many years. They are nearly all hitters and with pen hold grip + LP, they should never be underestimated. Of course, samsonov played tourist in that video
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Def play grey grip 94gr, Venus 2 blue 2,2, Neubauer KO extreme 1,3mm
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mts388
Platinum Member Joined: 03/21/2014 Location: Sonora CA Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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Everyone has a reason for playing. Some need the rating points, others want the trophies or money. I play to improve my game. I don't care if it's at the club or a tournament. In reality almost all of my club matches are practice matches and at tournaments almost all of my matches are played to win. At last years U.S. Nationals I played a match against a higher rated guy with a style that I had never seen. Since I couldn't advance out of my round robin I treated it as a practice match and tried different things. I lost the match, but learned a little about his style. I felt it was a good match. Because I don't feel the pressure to win, I enjoy all my matches and tournaments. |
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mhnh007
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Oh sure, people sacrifice their weekend, spending hundreds of dollars, if not thousands, if tournament is cross state, to do some practice match all the time, any where... Tournament is certainly not the place for them to test themselves. LOL.
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mts388
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Right on agentHEX. If I can gain more by practicing something in a match than by focusing on only winning, I will go with the practice if the match is not critical to my advancing. |
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AgentHEX
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Sometimes to learn something effectively you need to do it in the proper environment X number of times. Playing only to win can delay what can be necessary to improve.
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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mts388
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I think there are many players for whatever reason use tournament matches as practice matches. |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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I think that players in tournaments play to win and won't risk to lose a game or match, trying to prove that they can win a certain way.. practice is a different story. |
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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fall_river
Member Joined: 09/25/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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This is the beauty of our sport. Old folks with unique skills give pros troubles or 8 years old girls or 80 years old men beat "muscular" guys. A good lp player has real skill just as a inverted rubber player who can blast ball at super high speed.
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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If someone doesn't play against LPs at their own level regularly they can be at a significant disadvantage. But a better player is more likely to figure out something that works and then win with it.
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2337 |
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I am not trying to diminish your achievement. But most times when advanced players see push blockers as competent as you, they will try to hit through you just to see if they can do it. To them, slowing the game etc is just too boring and proves nothing. Timing the ball and getting into position for a drive is much more challenging and in the end, more fun and a learning experience. I have seen it many times. Many times the PB wins. It depends on the circumstances. |
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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>Update: I wouldn't throw out comment on any match that I have never watched.
As far as the match that I have given link, I watched many times. Besides, many folks here have watched that match also. Well, everyone who watch for themselves can assess the relevant counting skills here. > Then tried using inverted, not working. WJJ also doesn't use inverted, btw. |
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AgentHEX
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It's pretty evident from other videos of him that WJJ does not play (or even practice) in a sweater and pants, that he didn't even bother to take off for this one. Did you even watch the video you linked? I skipped through it pretty quick and the score went to 11 on the WJJ's side of the table at least twice. That means he won at least two games, not zero.
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skip3119
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==================================== (Li Zhi-Ming vs Huang Jian Jiang) If one can read Chinese, one knows that was not a demo or for fun game, it was the first LP tournament held in the province of Shanxi Province (陕西). Update: I wouldn't throw out comment on any match that I have never watched. As far as the match that I have given link, I watched many times. Besides, many folks here have watched that match also. WJJ tried hard to win: Changed his strategy, not working. Then tried using inverted, not working. Switched back to LP again, and didn't work out either. Anyway, the argument is getting to non-sense. In China WJJ is known as the LP master. He also has a video lesson on how to play against LP, but when he faced one, WJJ just didn't know what to do. Did you watch that match carefully? AgentHEX, you will run into someone keeps arguing with you, but I am not interested. I am getting out of this thread. Edited by skip3119 - 03/03/2015 at 6:35pm |
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skip3119
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AgentHEX
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I wrote about this a bit back:
http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=283742#p283742 In short, people who think he's <2300 have no clue how LP works, and probably not much better for TT in general. > For Li Zhi-Ming vs Huang Jian Jiang, it was 3-0. I can't see how this is any more serious than the Samsonov one given WJJ is similarly dressed in a fricking sweater. Counting skills are also suspect given WJJ wins at least two sets. |
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kolevtt
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People sometimes posted fun videos for serious topic discussions...
I have a serious question for the topic owner: How many $$$ the old man offered Samsonov to loss this match? |
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skip3119
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=========================================== Which video? For Li Zhi-Ming vs Huang Jian Jiang, it was 3-0.
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skip3119
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