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Fake H3 national |
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Hozuki
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 477 |
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Posted: 11/19/2017 at 2:25pm |
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The sponge is firmer than 42-44 deg. It feels around 48 at least.
I have ordered various hardnesses, but it didn't feel like one was significantly different in hardness from the others. However, variance in weigth was insane. There can be up to 15 grams difference uncut. Btw, I just made first place in local championships with this rubber on my FH. I went 7 - 0. Level wasn't high though. Just up to around 1500-1600 USATT. I prefer it unboosted. Spin comes mainly from topsheet, not from sponge, so boosting mainly adjusts the speed. Needs a fairly hard, fast, and medium flexy blade. But you really need a lot of physical effort and good technique to make use of it. |
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al_111
Member Joined: 04/05/2017 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Hautamaeki
Member Joined: 12/14/2013 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 78 |
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I´ve bought 2 of these 39º H3 blue sponge rubber, 2 years ago, both were good quality and performed very good, then I tried to boost them, with good results.
Bottom line, for 9/10 euros, there is only one rubber with the same feeling and performance for the Fh, and I use it now, I have been using it for 2 years, it's the Palio Hadou 40+ with 42-44º, same feeling, same sponge, same tackiness, same speed, same boosting. i'll be using it since...well, it's the same price too, maybe they are the same.
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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I am wondering about comparison between Airoc M and these so so much wanted rubbers H3 ...
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Hozuki
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 477 |
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I think I need to update this, playing with this rubber for a couple of weeks on a PG-12 and it's an extremely good combo. I like this rubber best from all dhs rubbers, even though it's likely not even a dhs rubber, lol.
The hard topsheet just grabs the plastic ball and loads it up with spin, even when wet. Sadly I still cannot accurately compare to other H3 variants since I did not buy any sheets for maybe ten years... I ordered a couple more, best price performance ratio ever. |
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al_111
Member Joined: 04/05/2017 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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@FdT
I can't find one either, although I'm sure I've seen A LOT of these on AliExpress a couple of years ago, all those "Tenergies", "H3 Nationals" etc. priced $10. Haven't been looking into this kind of deals since, but all of them had a disclaimer I was speaking about. Now I actually don't see these fakes being sold at all, so after all probably it was just AliExpress policy being stricter than DHGate's then and having become even more so now, not the sellers being conscious.
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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"What the seller should have done is give the disclaimer saying that the rubber is not original but its copy - and, in fact, most of these one-day-shops do. Saying that, I would be close to accusing him of fraud if we were speaking about orange sponge commercial H3 that is rather close in the price range, but not the item in OP."
al_111: I have never seen a seller clearly indicate that the rubbers in question are "copies" or "counterfeit". If they did, then I would agree with you 100% they are not trying to defraud PPL, but simply selling a product that is significantly inexpensive. Same with online vendors who sell these rubbers. I have NEVER seen one that indicates whether these rubbers are copies. As you can see from jk82's post, a clear indication that the rubbers were copies would have precluded jk82 from buying the items. "jk92 wrote: I have received a similar fake before in place of what was supposed to be sheets of Hurricane 3-50 and Skyline 3-60"" So tell me that's not fraudulent!! If they indicated the nature of the fake rubbers I would have no problem with the sellers. They just have to inform the potential customers. FdT
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jk92
Super Member Joined: 09/29/2015 Location: Toronto Status: Offline Points: 389 |
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I got it from ebay, the dealer that sells XVT stuff. The photo didn't have a verification sticker on the rubber and the packaging looked pretty fake from the photo, I guess I should have known
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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" jk92 wrote:
I have received a similar fake before in place of what was supposed to be sheets of Hurricane 3-50 and Skyline 3-60" Could you please inform us where did you buy these counterfeit rubbers from? Sorry you got ripped off!!! FdT
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jk92
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Timo Boll CAF Penhold
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jk92
Super Member Joined: 09/29/2015 Location: Toronto Status: Offline Points: 389 |
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I have received a similar fake before in place of what was supposed to be sheets of Hurricane 3-50 and Skyline 3-60
Every time i see the pip structure in some of those photos it pisses me off at how I was ripped off. The printing on the rubber topsheet is really quite good. Very close to the real thing. The packaging was very very good and only lacked a little bit of the reflective hologramming. The rubber had no verification sticker on it. In terms of performance, it played super dead, lifeless chinese rubber with good sticky surface. I still have a sheet, but have attached to a super hard carbon blade (not the best match for it), maybe it has some life on another blade
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Hozuki
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 477 |
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Crazy people everywhere...
Well, at least it doesn't get boring. |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Gomenasai
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Hozuki
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 477 |
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We are on the equipment section of a table tennis forum... this might come as a surprise to you... but people here are likely to try new equipment! However, do you not think that this is a little bit too much of a biased sample to draw conclusions about the entire european playerbase from?
Also, I'd prefer it if you were not to throw around your unnecessary and mind-numbing memes. |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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This thread has made me come to the realization what Frank Schreiner said about European players was true - that they're very eager to try out new equipment, knockoffs included. |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Hozuki
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 477 |
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Sure that might very well be the case. What counts then are the negative reviews. For example, that seller also sells fake Rakza 7 soft, which has only 3 Reviews, and 2 of them very negative. And since the Bluefire and H3 fakes don't really have those, they might actually be decent rubbers.
If I was mad that the rubber I got was rubbish, I probably would have written an appropriate review. |
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al_111
Member Joined: 04/05/2017 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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I have looked a little into the shop mentioned in OP. The 2nd best seller there is Bluefire M1 copy that also has excellent reviews, and it does not make any sense at all - while I can imagine smb providing a decent H3 alternative, it is clear that reproducing ESN rubbers performance is too much to ask from a fake, so the positive reviews might very well be worthless in the 1st place (see what I said about people who do not care about performance). When I read these reviews, it looked like FdT was right about A LOT of them being fake - the same or similar comments to different rubbers made repeatedly from the same accounts etc. I think a possible explanation for lack of negative reviews may be that very few of these fake rubbers are actually being sold.
Also, I did not find a word stating it was a copy in the description of any product in the shop. So it seems that the seller is applying some clearly foul business practices besides the controversial one of selling copies. Edited by al_111 - 07/31/2017 at 11:52am |
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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"What I do not agree here is the assumption that the seller actually tries to defraud his buyers. Imagine you're a contractor using professional tools that cost $200-500. If there was an online Chinese (!) shop selling it for $20, there was no way you would think the product is genuine. Still, if its name was the same with some tool you knew well and had used before, you would know which characteristics the manufacturer promises you will get."
I see your point but the problem is, they come in a package made to look like an original H3 BS, and not just that one, they also sell fake Tenergys, etc. I have seen the fake packaging in person, it's obviously a cheap color print, but online it is hard to tell the quality of the printing on the package. You put the onus on the consumer to figure that at a certain prize he should conclude it is a fake. BUT the root of the problem is that they are selling the COUNTERFEIT items in the first place. That is dishonest by definition!!! Again, if the rubber had such great playing characteristics, then it would find a market on its own. FdT
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al_111
Member Joined: 04/05/2017 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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al_111
Member Joined: 04/05/2017 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Also, it is peculiar how a person could call a group of people smartasses for mocking another guy in the same post that starts with an offensive picture and ends with indirectly calling his opponent ignorant. As you posted yourself,
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al_111
Member Joined: 04/05/2017 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Why even bother with selling these? Probably, it just looks COOL for a huge bunch of recreational players (esp. in China, I guess) to have a blue sponge under a H3 topsheet just like the TT gods do, regardless of actual playing characteristics. So there is a niche for the product we discuss. What I do not agree here is the assumption that the seller actually tries to defraud his buyers. Imagine you're a contractor using professional tools that cost $200-500. If there was an online Chinese (!) shop selling it for $20, there was no way you would think the product is genuine. Still, if its name was the same with some tool you knew well and had used before, you would know which characteristics the manufacturer promises you will get. What the seller should have done is give the disclaimer saying that the rubber is not original but its copy - and, in fact, most of these one-day-shops do. Saying that, I would be close to accusing him of fraud if we were speaking about orange sponge commercial H3 that is rather close in the price range, but not the item in OP.
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Hozuki
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 477 |
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Sorry Al, I completely overlooked your inital post. I have a 39 degree version and put it on an OC, and I don't think I could bottom it out at all. It definetly doesn't lack power. But power-wise it was very similar to H2N. But you can also order it in 40 or 41 degree. Quality-wise it is better than the average H2 commercial.
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Meanwhile, this tragedy befell on someone somewhere else on Earth: That was the poor dude's 1st purchase on Taobao riding on the huge wave of table tennis hit after the Rio Olympics. He got the setup as a combo. Later on he said a friend of his who didn't know better bought a Butterfly knockoff for the price of a genuine one. He started that thread to raise people's awareness as well as to quell snarky comments from all the nice smartasses, and last but not least, as a reminder to people that: Edited by zeio - 07/30/2017 at 3:47pm |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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"To clarify my position - I don't have any ethical issues with using copies of some products as long as they are not being sold as originals."
My question would be if this product is so good, why go through the charade of making it a counterfeit product? why sell it trying to defraud PPL looking for real H3 BS sheets? If its a good product then it would naturally find a market as an original design and brand. Especially at that price!! If you have no problems with this fraudulent product then fine. Congratulations. But some of us do have problems with counterfeit products. FdT
Edited by Fulanodetal - 07/30/2017 at 3:20pm |
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al_111
Member Joined: 04/05/2017 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Hozuki, since you haven't had experience with genuine H3 recently, let me rephrase my question: when boosted, does this fake National of yours lack power on hard shots? I'm one of those who might be interested in trying it out if it doesn't.
To clarify my position - I don't have any ethical issues with using copies of some products as long as they are not being sold as originals. In this specific case, the price is a clear giveaway, so the name "H3 National" actually states what set of characteristics the manufacturer tried to achieve rather than an effort to mimic the rubber as a genuine H3 Nat. No one here would actually think it was legit being priced $10, right?
Edited by al_111 - 07/30/2017 at 2:42pm |
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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"Also, as I said, I tried them and they play very well, so I can recommend them."
your first post was such a garbled mess, since your english is terrible. How come you did not mention you had in fact tried one IN YOUR FIRST POST?!? so stupid!! You should have started with the fact that you did try one in the first place rather than making a rhetorical question!!! You are the one wasting everyone's time. Anyway, I won't be buying the COUNTERFIT sheet, regardless of your recommendation since you're such a pedantic person. FdT
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Hozuki
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 477 |
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As mentioned before, I wanted to see if anybody has had experience with it and can compare it to the originals. Since you don't fall into that target group, you don't have anything to contribute to this discussion and therefore your comments are pointless. You took offense at the fact that I pointed out your comment was irrelevant. Thus all readers are more likely to be offended by your post.
Also, as I said, I tried them and they play very well, so I can recommend them. But obviously you didn't read that as well. At this point, further discussion with you is pointless, so please move on with your life. |
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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Hozuki, : your original post was NOT the offending one.
this one was >>> "Thank you both for your comments devoid of any coherence and meaning. In other words, thanks for wasting your time, mine and that of many others as well." so who is the confused one?!? In your first post you started by asking "why not buy the cheap fake ones and see how they play"....all I did was tell you maybe you should try them out. Take your own medicine. You go ahead and try the fake ones. in your own words "WHY NOT?"...I know why not, and you do too. FdT
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smackman
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I make fake ones, by ripping the sponge off , using my red stamp and gluing some corners on
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
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Hozuki
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 477 |
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Yes, I am aware of that. I suspect there still might be a chance these sellers remove the sponge of commercial H3 and replace them with their own sponges, at some markup. I believe this because it plays very much like I expect from a H3, but I have to say I lack an object of reference since I have not purchased any other version of H3 for a long time. |
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