Multi Ball Training: Pros and Cons

beeray1 wrote: Rack wrote: I must know alot of magical gifted people then!  But great counter point... back to what you were saying Bee... as you said... multiball pushes the limits of how fast you can move.... do you think a 1200 player can push you to that limit consistently to actually make use of that training?  Most 1200 players I know push and push... and push... maybe make 1 FH outta 5.  You can totally learn how to loop underspin correctly with 1 ball.  Also you say it simulates match conditions beyond normal consistency which is totally correct... I agree... but would you face anyone in the lower levels that consistent?  And like I said... I totally agree multiball is important... just later around 1500+ when you actually see people have the skill to push you that far.   getting to 1650 in 3 weeks? you know a lot of people like that? California is where it's at lol.   But I was agreeing with you- under a certain level it's not as big of a deal. Like you said- most guys at 1200 aren't going to give you conistent balls, they don't even know what they are doing half the time. But for overal development with a goal of getting to somewhat of a high level i think it's a necessity. I personally feel like in my game right now, I'm not going to get much better unless i really start doing things like that. I've gotten better in the last year simply by becoming better at reading the game. I need more robotic drilling now. The thing that hurts is that most people are too lazy to drill or multiball. They are happy playing matches. I almost want to teach my girlfriend how to feed haha.

Edited by Rack - 09/12/2011 at 3:44pm

again a good point =). good think i get my girls to play games in between practices too. we have them play 2 rounds of around the world followed by 1 game against controled blocks

tpgh2k wrote: again a good point =). good think i get my girls to play games in between practices too. we have them play 2 rounds of around the world followed by 1 game against controled blocks

Edited by Rack - 09/12/2011 at 4:04pm

tpgh2k wrote: it's just so tough......=/ recruiting girls is near impossible. plus from a college standpoint, it's not very popular....

fatt wrote: At any level en especially in the beginning there is nothing better than multiball to learn:   -proper form -footwork -recovery from fh to fh, fh to bh, bh to bh and bh to fh -feeling the groove when into the rhythm of a drill   maybe a robot can do things close to multiball but you can't replace an experieinced ball feeder with a piece of harware and software. The experience with a ball feeder will always be superior.   Playing matches in conjunction of multiball training is necessary though. I know many people who look so good in multiball training and can't really play even close in a match. Both must be forced to merge on a continuous basis for best results.

Edited by Rack - 09/12/2011 at 6:22pm

Rack wrote: " i coach not because i follow my students wants but i see to it they learn what they need to learn by doing multiball in a session plus other things. "   "and who told you that i do not ask my students about their goals?"   You told me this using the first phrase.  You don't care what your student wants... only what you feel they need.   And how am I giving Assumptions?  *because what they need as a player is more important than what they want!    I'm giving you real scenarios of people I knew who actually sought coaching and their goals and testing you to see how you as a coach would handle the situation. All you're saying... did you read the book?  What about the book?  What are your sources?  This is a good example how 1 dimensional the book makes you.  You also ask how would I know their goals... well guess what... THEY TOLD ME!  I don't have to read a book to ask someone... what are your goals?  Does your book cover asking people?  Clearly it doesn't because you don't care what their agenda is per your own words... only what you feel the need. *ahmm it is the coaches responsibility as a trainer to see to it that the students learn what they NEED to learn not what they want to LEARN! so you would teach a student to loop when they cant even do a proper fh or bh stroke??   I told you lessons are expensive here in the US... then you went on about poor people and trying to side step the money issue saying you teach for free.  Unfortunately coaches aren't free in the US and other parts of the world... they're quite expensive.  And cost is a HUGE factor in coaching as well as how many lessons you buy.  Most people I know only buy 1-2 if you're lucky within a span of months.   *would it cost me too much if i ask you how he plays since you are planning to beat him im sure you know what are his common strokes and things he does and then apply it starting on the things with a multiball session? then with table drills and match plays?   You're going to multiball me based on word of mouth descriptions?  Thats the high quality coaching your ITTF book advocates?  You would have no clue how to multiball a style of a person based on word of mouth.  What if I told you his movements threw me off... how would you multiball that without seeing his movements?  How would you know where he places the ball, how spinny they are, how powerful they are?  How would you multiball any of it without observing the player I wanted to beat with me playing him?  Thats the ONLY way for you to truly identify all the different areas and if multiball is suitable or not. *so the words that comes out of your mouth are not trustworthy then so i should not believe the words when i ask you? basing on your arguements above if i cant see him play then what is the point of asking me to coach because you think i didnt see him play then i cant multiball you? so i t means i cant also teach you how to play because i didnt see him play?   This is a good scenario of where your coaching method makes no sense per the needs and goal of the student.  Per what you just said... you would just "guess" to your best of your ability based on what I said.  You say your multiball can be a accurate simulation... How accurate do you think you could make your simulation if you have never seen this person I wanted to beat playing me? *how in the hell will you reach your goal if in the first place your perceived needs arent met? tell me pls?    If i said his shots were spinny... how do you know my ranges for what I feel is "spinny"?  Would you waste 5 minutes of lesson time feeding me different balls and getting my opinion?  Same for all the other variables you would have to figureout to give me a accurate simulation.  You could spend the whole lesson alotted time just trying to figure out what my word of mouth description means.  And what if I told you I had no clue why I do so bad against him (which is what some people say when they are totally baffled), would you just make up some random multiball plan and hope it helps me against him?  Thats a very "vague" way to train and I don't think any students I know would pay $40 an hour for that.  So again I say...   *ahmm adjusting the spin of a stroke is not that hard to do in a multiball You say your multiball can be a accurate simulation... How accurate do you think you could make your simulation if you have never seen this person I wanted to beat playing me?  How accurate can it be if you never played the person yourself to actually feel the types of balls he puts out.  We all know watching isn't a accurate barometer.  Did the ITTF book forget to mention this particular scenario?  or did it assume I would be your student for more than 1 session?  Take into account that alot of people base if they want to come back for more lessons per how you handle the first lesson and you just missed a ton of IMPORTANT points you needed to know to give your multiball simulation.  That doesn't give the student alot of confidence in the simulation you're going to provide. *you are a bit choosy on your answer and you pick only one of my sources.. why is it you exclude my 2 other sources who are the more credible sources? they have lots of experience than you. you would tell me you have 2  years of multiballing but your experience is tiny compared to people who have coached for their life and it isnt what they teach. using your logic again about the book saying the world is flat i will also believe its flat then maybe during your childhood days you shouldnt learn your abc's, believe that the earth is round, 1=1 = 2 etc because the books says so? is that it? or you are being selective and double standards on your posts?   Now heres my point that I've been trying to make to you the ENTIRE time... in a scenario like this, what if you were able to actually watch me play him and correct me as I was playing him?  Would that not be better than your simulation?  Which would help me more if I only bought 1 lesson from you?  The real thing + the tips and correction you can provide.... or your simulation which you wouldn't have a clue and would be based on guesses and assumptions? *there is this thign called table drills and practice plays that if players have difficulty about a certain part of the match they would practice this scenario over and over again. before doing that they do multiballs to practice the foots works. isnt that a simulation? if basing on what you say about your opponent you have difficulty doing this and that against his sudden movements and then you practice play against that style for example, isnt that sort of a simulation also?

kenney that is the point there. rack is saying that multiballs should not be used for beginners because he is more concerned with his techniques rather than his basics. so why is basics is given much emphasis in china even in beginners using multiballs again??? rack will answer, not everyone can multiball or you dont see everyone multiball in clubs in the us. so because rack thinks because everybody doesnt not multiball or most ppl do not he automatically thinks that multiball is not good for beginners, great! he does not want to use the china way arguement because it proves him he is wrong. he will just go back to his arguement i cant afford a good coach this and that. it only proves that this is only his opinion and it is never founded on anything solid. nor he has any real formal coaching experience to say this. the number of people not doing multiballs in the states do not affect the fact that multiballing is needed for beginners! that is the point here! givig the arguement that you can develop a player to 1500 with no multiball is also a flawed arguement because we are talking about the importance of multiball on teaching it to beginners! the issue of its availability is not the point here but its importance, if you are not able to find a coach who can give you a multiball drill it does not affect that FACT that multiball is important to beginners. that is the ideal situan, if you can find a coach to give you multiballs for basics as a beginner then it is the best thing! that is the point of the arguements here. 

kenneyy88 wrote: You can use a single ball, but it will take a much longer time because you are just going to be picking up balls. And drilling in bad technique into muscle memory, when they use bad technique to keep the ball on the table.

kenneyy88 wrote: Rack wrote: kenneyy88 wrote: You can use a single ball, but it will take a much longer time because you are just going to be picking up balls. And drilling in bad technique into muscle memory, when they use bad technique to keep the ball on the table.    What makes you think you'll be drilling bad techniques if the coach is watching you and correcting you?   As for picking up balls... won't you have to pick up balls in a real match?  Is that not a realistic way to train?  And why would you have to pick up balls?  You could have a tub of balls on the side and still play practice points instead of multiball drills without stopping much.  Thats how alot of clubs do it. Thats basically skipping a step in learning, for some people this can work. But not everyone's ability is the same. Many would benefit from taking it slow with multiball and working it up into a rally.

Edited by Rack - 09/12/2011 at 9:59pm

But you can multiball if you wanted to quite easily.  All you need is to buy a buncha balls, put them in a tub, and have people hit them to you.  It might not be as fast or as accurate as from a high level coach... but you can always pay for coaching if you want that.  And I've already said that its beneficial... my point is that its not more beneficial than match play and if you overmultiball with not enough matchplay, your game can suffer as a result which is a major con about the misbalance of too much multiballing that alot of coaches do.

Like multiple people have said... we've observed people who multiballed too much and did not focus on enough matchplay.  They look fantastic in the multiball, but horrible in a match since it's nothing like the multiball.

Edited by Rack - 09/12/2011 at 11:22pm

Really Bonggoy?  You see a majority of normal club players bringing in tubs of balls everyday?  By majority I mean you walk in the club and theres more people who brought in their own tubs of balls doing multiball with their tub of balls vs people who brought 1 ball playing games against people. 

Edited by Rack - 09/13/2011 at 1:42am

@rack: the only reason why people (in my opinion) never did the "multiball bucket" in the beginning is because they never know about it. it's the same with tennis. kids to want to learn and play start with 1 ball...that's just how it is. but beginners by themselves have no knowledge of a coaching regiment. hence why they don't bring in a bucket with them when they play.

Haha how many times do I have to tell you... I never said it wasn't good for beginners.  I said only multiball training ALONE is not good for beginners.  I said Match Play takes a higher priority than multiball.  Get it through your thick skull instead of just being so 1 dimensional with your little coaching book.  There are MULTIPLE ways to do things.... not just YOUR way.