Use FAST equipment to improve

gatorling wrote: No it's a horrible idea. The problem with fast equipment is that often times it's very hard to figure out what you did wrong. A lot of players end up developing a very passive stroke - because that's the only way they can keep the ball on the table. I'd say the best is to use a medium-hard to medium sponge style rubber that is NOT a tensor. Also stay away from carbon blades. A 5 ply all wood blade is best to learn on. You want to develop touch and the correct technique, and the best way to do that is to use moderately slow stuff. My friend used a LKT Instinct + IQUL on FH/BH and easily made 1600 on that setup. He only recently changed to a much faster setup (Xiom Aria + H3 + Moon Pro) and is now 1860. But he developed the basis of his technique using a very slow setup.

Here is the gigantic glaring problem with your argument.  You don't have a comparison group.  What if your friend started with Xiom Aria + H3 when he was 1400?  Where would he be now?  You think he would not have reached his current level.  But you are simply assuming the result.  You present anecdotal evidence based on one guy and you have no comparison group.  I can tell you that I have seen several people go from 1200 to 1800 reasonably quickly using composite blades most of the time.  They have had access to good coaching and they worked at it. 

Having said that, it could very well be that 1600 might be the stage at which one might one to speed up the setup a bit, but I still don't accept the absolute prohibition against certain kinds of composite blade for a beginner (let's say 1400) who is determined to get better.

The difficulty in figuring out what you did wrong has nothing to do with the equipment your are using.  That problem is addressed by seeing yourself play on video and through the eyes and explanations of a coach.

Baal wrote: Having said that, it could very well be that 1600 might be the stage at which one might one to speed up the setup a bit, but I still don't accept the absolute prohibition against certain kinds of composite blade for a beginner who is determined to get better. The difficulty in figuring out what you did wrong has nothing to do with the equipment your are using.  That problem is addressed by seeing yourself play on video and through the eyes and explanations of a coach.

One argument  the pious advocates of very slow equipment for developing players is that the faster stuff stunts growth of power in developing players because they don't have to generate it from legs, presumably because it all comes from blade.

One could ask if the shoe isn't on  the other foot.  If you can get away with all sorts of technical errors and imprecise "floppy" strokes because pretty much everything you do results in a ball that stays on the table (because it has no pace mind you) --- is that not also a crutch of sorts?  I would say so.

If you gave a Joola Rossi Emotion or a TBS to a 1600 player, with a couple of sheets of Vega, you would not ruin them for life.  They would improve with practice and good coaching and good competition, in direct proportion to the availability of those things.  And the good thing is, that no matter how good they got, they really wouldn't need anything faster.

Pushdeep wrote: Thanks for all the replies. This is short version of what I typed and lost. Not actually asking as newbie but as someone stuck in internediate level. Realize tt not just about hitting hard but juat trying to change one thing to get out of rut. Anyway speed is important because it gives opponent less time and causes weak returns. But my aim is not to get more speed because you can do that by swining harder. My idea of changing to fast equipment is to get same speed without swinging hard to improve recovery for next shot. Im thinking Schlager carbon level (current blade: TBS) Or maybe there is better thing to change than equipment speed but that's another topic.

That particular change probably won't work.  TBS is pretty fast blade already.  Several people I know who have tried that particular change always switched back fairly soon, including players 2100+. 

You might want to take a count of what you are doing to get better (and why you are stuck).  How many times a week do you play?  Do you play regularly with people better than you?  What are your practice habits?  Do you drill?  Videotape yourself?  Get coaching?  Practice your serve and return and have an idea what you might need to do to make those better?  Some equipment changes might have subtle effects on your overall level.  Asking more than that is unrealistic.  It's just the way things are.  

Also the sport is a game of plateaus.  Sometimes you stay at a certain level for awhile even if you do all the things to improve.  And then suddenly you get better.

Pushdeep wrote: Thanks for all the replies. This is short version of what I typed and lost. Not actually asking as newbie but as someone stuck in internediate level. Realize tt not just about hitting hard but juat trying to change one thing to get out of rut. Anyway speed is important because it gives opponent less time and causes weak returns. But my aim is not to get more speed because you can do that by swining harder. My idea of changing to fast equipment is to get same speed without swinging hard to improve recovery for next shot. Im thinking Schlager carbon level (current blade: TBS) Or maybe there is better thing to change than equipment speed but that's another topic.

When I began playing, I was always unsatisfied with the speed of my blades. I switched to faster and faster equipment. Training regularly, I seemed to have no consistency issues in training. I did miss a lot more during match play.

Over the past 2 years or so, I have been slowing down my equipment. I went down to Off, Off-, and finally to All+. I learned how to create the power myself, rather than having the blade provide it for me, except this time a lot of shots in a very wide power range consistently land on the table.

All I can say is that I've gained a lot of appreciation and respect for all those ALL, ALL+ blades out there that I have previously considered unusable.

Forgot about the guy with the car. He was kind enough to post a video (didn't watch, sorry) to help my slow understanding with some visual aids. I don't know if you have driven a decent sports car yourself but i want to tell you something, and you can verify this yourself: when it comes to control, fast cars are FAR SUPERIOR. You should drive a Porsche just once in your life and come here and share with us how it compares to your camry in terms of control. Heck, if you do it I might just read your story.

NextLevel wrote: Pushdeep wrote: Thanks for all the replies. This is short version of what I typed and lost. Not actually asking as newbie but as someone stuck in internediate level. Realize tt not just about hitting hard but juat trying to change one thing to get out of rut. Anyway speed is important because it gives opponent less time and causes weak returns. But my aim is not to get more speed because you can do that by swining harder. My idea of changing to fast equipment is to get same speed without swinging hard to improve recovery for next shot. Im thinking Schlager carbon level (current blade: TBS) Or maybe there is better thing to change than equipment speed but that's another topic. Not sure what your rating is, but the way I think about TT is what I call levers of power. 1.Toes/ankles. 2. Knees. 3.Waist/abs 4. Shoulder 5. Elbow 6. Wrist 7. Fingers Usually, when someone is looking for more power/speed in a stronger stroke, it is time to add power to looking at which of these levers is utilized, or which of the current levers being used can be made stronger by physical fitness.  (The one lever that should not be used that often is the shoulder - it is too unstable and prone to injury.  The most under utilized levers are the elbow and the wrist, though all can be underutilized depending on how a player plays.) . For example, doing your strokes with 3 lbs weights can help you get some more power.  Using another lever with enhanced timing does help as well.  Sometimes, people lose power by brushing the ball much too lightly rather than going into it fairly open with a thick contact and a wrapping motion, especially when the ball is high.  Finally, power is not all that is needed to win - sometimes setting up the opponent by bringing them in so that even moderately fast shots are harder to defend/counterloop off the table is one strategy that doesn't require that much power.

Great points... another one I would like to add that a lot of beginners miss is simply timing. It's not always about muscles and brute force. Want more speed without swinging harder? Get to the ball quicker and take it off the bounce.

Edited by Rack - 11/27/2013 at 12:34am

assiduous wrote: Leshxa wrote: When I began playing, I was always unsatisfied with the speed of my blades. I switched to faster and faster equipment. Training regularly, I seemed to have no consistency issues in training. I did miss a lot more during match play. Over the past 2 years or so, I have been slowing down my equipment. I went down to Off, Off-, and finally to All+. I learned how to create the power myself, rather than having the blade provide it for me, except this time a lot of shots in a very wide power range consistently land on the table. All I can say is that I've gained a lot of appreciation and respect for all those ALL, ALL+ blades out there that I have previously considered unusable. Aaah... i know what he's doing, he's just messing with me, am I right? : )

Not at All! I was merely responding to the OP!

But I must admit that your response is quite cute :)

Rack wrote:   Great points... another one I would like to add that a lot of beginners miss is simply timing. It's not always about muscles and brute force. Want more speed without swinging harder? Get to the ball quicker and take it off the bounce.

NextLevel wrote: No, he's not.  I've actually seen Leshxa use those blades he is talking about at my club.  He used the Yasaka Sweeper and then went to the Waldner All Play when he didn't like the Yasaka sweeper durability.  But he is a full bodied looper - I am not as physical with my game.  Leshxa has beaten 2000+ players with those slow blades.

Actually it was Yasaka Sweden Classic, not the sweeper. Although I am not an expert. But the funny thing was that Bojan Tokic took my blade to hit a few shots when I went down to Georgia for a training camp and gave me a look like "What a hell is this slow thing" :). I am sure it was extremely slow for his liking. :)

Pushdeep wrote: Is this good idea? Use very fast equipment. This will shorten your strokes, so your recovery time improves. So you improve.

Poor Sweden Classic...so much abuse!  Actually it's not as slow as one may think. I put 2 sheets of T64 on mine and it held it's own for speed.

I'm gonna change my mind on this subject.  Go ahead, buy the fast friggin crap that has the juiciest marketing hype that you can find.  I will continue to enjoy watching ya dump serve returns into the net and send loops off the end of the table.

pingpongpaddy wrote: I think that one should play with the fastest equipment that you can push, block, and return serve with satisfactory confidence. If you cant do those shots well, it wont matter what the speed of drive and kill is.