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[Video] vs. my training partner |
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ohhgourami
Platinum Member Joined: 08/12/2008 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 2341 |
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Posted: 04/26/2011 at 4:22am |
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He isn't really my training partner, not now at least. We started out our lessons together but we just went our own ways to training plus we got busy with school. But for the past half year, he surpassed me after beating me many times and started beating others rated significantly higher ~300 points. But today we had a chance to play and I got it on video.
Before you watch the video, I will say that my serves were really sloppy, much sloppier than usual as I'm in a transition phase with serves. Learning a new serve so cut me some slack on that. Everything else...go ahead and criticize. I believe I counted having my bh touch the ball only once in this match, and it was a push BTW, I played mostly control in this match. http://youtu.be/xmm2uO_-ryA |
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fructu
Super Member Joined: 08/11/2010 Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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Well, first of all I can't tell you who of the two players you are since you haven't specified yet.
- OMG none of you can't almost put a single first attack into the table!!! I think you miss too much. - The player in black t-shirt (not the one in blue) simply moves too slow. In fact when he attacks he lets his blade on top for too long. I'm pretty sure that if I were playing against him and I could block his attack he simply couldn't be able to return the ball back becouse of this. - You both are too slow and play too soft in general. I mean I cannot feel by your body language that you are in tension with your abdomen nor you legs. And other things but I think these are the most important.
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glassmaple
Super Member Joined: 04/21/2009 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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I feel that you have an idea of what you want to do, but your execution is too slow. By being slow in the first move you're already late for the second. Try to up your pace in your movements, as in getting to the shots and immediately pull back for the next one. By having a much faster arm speed to get to shots (pushes, blocks, loops, everything), you'll give the opponent less time to react and consequently you'll have more time to react.
If you do this, all your shots should improve significantly and what you plan out in your mind will actually happen on the table. Your mind's concept of your moment is much faster than what your body is actually doing. A lot of time this timing difference is what makes those horrible playing days where you want to break your paddle in half and just never want to play again. But if you know this, then all you have to do when you're playing horribly and nothing's going in is just to up your movement pace (obviously if your body is super tired that's not going to happen lol) Well, just a theory. Let me know what you guys think. |
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garwor
Silver Member Joined: 06/02/2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 730 |
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hm, switch to Primorac off- and 2x sriver fx/el 1.9mm...( oh, I forgot, boycott butterfly, use some cheaper equivalents), learn all needed shots, body physics, develop good consistancy, your own playing style, and then go for different bat.
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ohhgourami
Platinum Member Joined: 08/12/2008 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 2341 |
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If you are talking about some of the 3rd balls that went into the net from being too slow, then it makes a lot of sense. I feel that mainly my timing has gotten a bit slower as I don't have anyone to practice my big shots with. When my coach was here, he would consistently block back my kill loops with good control so I can keep going and going. I don't have that luxury anymore, plus still being full from dinner doesn't help either... |
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player87
Super Member Joined: 04/04/2011 Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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Some times your loops are quite good but they rarely happen. You start your attack with high and slow loop which is easy to kill. Low consistency. Receiving the serve mostly with FH and don't use BH side for it when the ball is going wide.
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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I think your friend is to slow and flat footed but is capable if he would put in some effort, but both of seldom landed any good shots and if 1 of you did the other the other 1 seldom expected it or didnt do much to try and move to get the ball back,
To me you are young fit and fast but don't really show it yet (I think both of you both are trying 1 big shot) and then nothing no stratagy no hunger no drive, Im over 50, unfit but I would have chased many of those wider balls with ease, i think you need to play someone who can hit the ball back 3 times to make you play better, that boy with the white shirt on the next table would be better for you lol, anyhow get your serves lower and increase the variation and keep practicing, keep doing drills and .... thats all
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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Im just thinking that someone video'd me at a turnament in the weekend and I have no idea what I would look like, I am going to get a copy on Thursday so it will be very interesting to see myself as we all have this impression of what we think we are like but disaster in real life,
the main thing is you are putting your vids out and asking for advice which is great, I might be chicken to do this myself lol but Im older fater but just try hard without any great skills
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
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Skyline
Premier Member Joined: 07/01/2007 Status: Offline Points: 3864 |
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IMHO you guys are trying to copy pro players too much!
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DeIgado
Silver Member Joined: 07/14/2010 Location: Rockin the USA Status: Offline Points: 711 |
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When i watch you play I feel like your trying so hard to maintain form instead of focusing on the ball thats coming your way. It looks like your wearing 80 lbs worth of clothing. Move your feet and get in position for the incoming ball lol |
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Tinykin_2
Silver Member Joined: 01/30/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 540 |
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I only watched the first game. You guys really strike a good pose. But it all breaks down after the serve. As others have said, it looks as though you simply need loads of practice.
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Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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ohhgourami, i'm sorry to say this(i know how hard you've worked!), but there's no forearm snap in your FH. You're still using the raising of your elbow as a source of power. You really need to go back and rework your FH. Look at the position of the elbow relative to the body in the 2 videos below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjYIS7VLl6Q - Zhang Jike - Xu Xin warmup http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoROPKeBANM - WLQ - Chen Qi warmup You need to start using the elbow as a fulcrum! |
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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tpgh2k
Platinum Member Joined: 09/14/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2103 |
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safe loops need more spin....that's all i can say =)
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Timo Boll Spirit FL H3 Blue Sponge Black FH Tenergy 64 Red BH |
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player87
Super Member Joined: 04/04/2011 Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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I would agree at this point but still we all have our favorite players and we tend to copy their game style and even inventory. It's ok to buy pro's equipment but to do that we have to reach certain level to handle the speed and spin. However, a lot of players use pro's equipment doing 1 good shot out of 10. Talking about you, HK655 (Liqin choice) which is 90gr+ and H3 National 40deg!!!! is not the easiest combination to play with. Moreover you got max on your BH. First of all, you don't use your bh and when you use it, it goes not into the table. Your forehand movement is more of brushing. I would recomend you to work on your FH tecnhique or switch to eurotensors. You definitely need a tones of practice to up your consistency. PS. No offence, it is just my opinion about your game. I am not a strong player, probably, a bit better than you but I can point out mistakes.
Edited by player87 - 04/26/2011 at 1:04pm |
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bonggoy
Super Member Joined: 11/18/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 475 |
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It's very painful watching you two "practice".
Both of you are too advance for your own good. I agree with the poster above about copying the pros too much. Lay off the youtube videos for a while. Around 4:12. Good serve form. Kind of reminds me of some Chinese players. You hit both serves in the net. Change serve. Your opponent has an even better serve pose. Ala-Liu Guoliang. He serves into the net. Too much emphasis on looking good and not on actually making a proper contact and putting the ball ON THE TABLE. That is the objective of the game. Go back to the basics. Do all the basic stroke drills and footwork drills. Repeat. Repeat some more. ... or you can try bowling. |
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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I think you should forget about your nice 'n fancy fh serves for a while and use simple serves like they do in doubles and develop your game from there. Your movements and basic footwork are still too slow to play the game you'd like to be able to do. When you execute the serves you were doing in the video, your preparation for the return is simply not there. 3rd ball attack is all about putting "quality" on the ball and your big serving motion severely limits your ability to do so. To put it another way, you must learn how to walk before you can sprint. If I were your coach I would ask you to do simple underspin serves with either your fh or bh with a 6-inch toss from now on, nothing fancy, with emphasis on placement and height (all your current serves are too high for my liking). At your level your opponent will most likely push it back, so your job is to concentrate in executing a quality ball on their return. Learn to open against this push with either your fh or bh with quality first... This is the most important aspect of your game. Forget about everything else. Once you can do this comfortably, you are well on your way to 2000. |
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addoydude
Silver Member Joined: 01/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 848 |
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do this - play with money on the line. That will quickly trim down the fat and frills from your game.
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player87
Super Member Joined: 04/04/2011 Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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I am a bit surprised with comments in similar topic of another forum member. I am not sure about the US rating system. But his game is way worse than onhgourami and people are talking about 1700 Rating and consistency in his shots and loops. If I didn't watch the video and just read comments I would think he is a really strong player.
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addoydude
Silver Member Joined: 01/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 848 |
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what are you talking about? That other guy was estimated at 1100 and he himself admitted he's close to 1100.
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Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon
H3 NEO / 388-D1 |
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bonggoy
Super Member Joined: 11/18/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 475 |
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Read the thread you commented. No one said he is 1700. The difference between the two, the players on the first video actually knows how to put the ball on the other side of the table. No fancy serves. Moves better as well. |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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If you called him on all of his hidden serves, you definitely would win every match :)
It is clear from these games that you both have had the same coach. Your conditioned responses to certain balls are very similar. You both strive to loopkill underspin with a similar stroke. However, your opponent occasionally "scales down" his attack and puts one more ball on the table for the point. He also occasionally opens with big strength from his backhand side. Luckily for you he also makes plenty of unforced errors. Across the match, I think you won all three points when you opened with medium topspin. Oddly enough, during one of the games almost almost all of the points that you won came from the placement and strength of your pushing. in that game, you managed to hit one solid winner, and your opponents unforced errors got you to 11 first. It absolutely terrifies me that you consider him a "control" player! At some point in the development of one's game it becomes necessary to engage in an honest appraisal of how much time and what quality you are willing to invest in practice. I recommend setting realistic goals based on what you are willing to invest. Because it simply hubris to think that you can play points styled after the professionals without putting in the "10,000 hours" of quality training required to do so. For example, if your goal is to play short game and 3rd ball attack, wouldn't it make sense to put all of your eggs in that basket? e.g. have a partner feed you thousands of multiball pushes? And rather than do it blindly, shouldn't the spin patterns and placements of multiball mirror the likely results of what your opponent's second ball would be against your corresponding serves? Also, you could do lots of push and serve receive drills. I'll leave the specifications of those drills to others, but it would seem that if we only have a limited amount of time to practice, that deliberate practice will serve us better than random practice. |
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Ndragon88
Silver Member Joined: 12/18/2008 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 961 |
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+1 I do this sometimes. Really helps put u into concentration mode. Ok. My opinions on these and all the other videos I watched of you. Your consistency in everything is very poor. Your opponents do not seem very good, or maybe its that they are trying to be fancy too. No offence but all they would have to do is push and they would win. Either way its practice so they can practice being fancy is they want. My advice would be to work on FH technique seeing as you use it 95% of the time. I feel its not working for you, I haven't seen such a FH technique before. Your arm is so straight and stretched and you lean on your right. It seems to put you at a disadvantage with being ready for your shot. I would say that when you get practice time, use at least 30 mins of it doing basic exercises. FH to FH drive. Loop to block. Loop from underspin. Counterhit from loop. and a little loop to loop (maybe even don't bother for now). I would advise to have a few good practice sessions first though. Give yourself however much time needed to do the following: FH-FH drive - at least 25 each without missing. (that would be 50 counts). Loop-Block - At least 10 successful loops. (start SLOW and ONLY after u hit 10, increase speed a little). I would say maybe even go for 10 3x before increasing. Loop from underspin - 5-10 loops. (focus on spin first so start SLOW. gradually increase) also let your opponent start with little backspin first increasing slightly as you become consistent. Counterhit from loop - 5-10 let your opponent loop and you counterhit it (asuming your partner will be consistent. If not then no big deal just practice it for a good 10-15mins) Loop-Loop is not really a big deal as I don't think you will use it much and is probably the shot you will automatically be decent at. TRUST me this will help u a lot. It might be frustrating a little but it will definitely help. It helped for me when I only play once a week. Getting back into shape with my TT. and if you don't play league then its perfect. Something I shall be doing now that I have finished all my matches in both leagues. If you would like any more tips just PM me I will be happy to help, give my advice and exercises from my experiences. Good luck bro |
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Stiga Clipper
Skyline TG3 NEO/Palio Thors www.youtube.com/ndragon88 |
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player87
Super Member Joined: 04/04/2011 Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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Ooops, mistake about 1700.
I am not sure about it but the shots on the first video are high and easy to return. That's why there is kind of "consistency" in their game. Maybe I am wrong. Just my opinion. |
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ohhgourami
Platinum Member Joined: 08/12/2008 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 2341 |
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LOL I would do these fh practice things, but I got no one that can block correctly! |
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Ndragon88
Silver Member Joined: 12/18/2008 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 961 |
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Thats ok. He can improve too then
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Stiga Clipper
Skyline TG3 NEO/Palio Thors www.youtube.com/ndragon88 |
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Fruit loop
Silver Member Joined: 05/14/2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 605 |
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Practice as well as you can until they can block your loops back, sometimes it helps to loop against someone who blocks with different speed and spin on their blocks |
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Timo Boll Spirit FL
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kyle90
Silver Member Joined: 03/21/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 558 |
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i always find your videos funny. you seem to always make the same mistakes and you never seem to take anyone's advice. i'm pretty sure the "2000" player from your other video is more than qualified to practice with you. it's not like you're landing many shots on the table anyways.
i think you are very disillusioned regarding the strength of your loops. you obviously aren't putting much spin on the ball otherwise they'd be hitting the table. also, i feel like anyone playing against you will gladly let you loop the ball past them knowing that you only make about 1 out of every 7-8 loops at best. almost any player can beat you just by pushing the ball |
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APW46
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These guys are at the level where they have not learned how to rally, they are playing each stroke as an entity, pre- determining their attacks without adapting to last second changes, that is why they are inconsistent. They look the part, but their stage of developement cannot be hidden. More time on the table needed.
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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ohhgourami
Platinum Member Joined: 08/12/2008 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 2341 |
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He is a control player when he plays other attackers. His consistency at blocking is better than people ~1500 so he will win. But both learning tt together, I know his weaknesses as much as he knows mine. His shortgame is weak so I exploit that to its fullest. To be honest, I was lazy while playing him so I didn't make the effort to do too much attacking. BTW, my opening loops have a lot more spin than it may seem. And against an opponent is just waiting for you to open big, it is not the best idea to give a big drive when a spinny loop that he can't block back on the table is 10x better. He knows where I land my big loops while 2000s don't. Funny isn't it? |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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I am super confused. Can he block or not block? I don't recall your training partner blocking much in the match? Is it because you didn't hit the ball to him? Or because he failed to move to the ball? I am confused. And disregard fruit loops comments about what you want from a blocking partner. You want someone with a solid enough block that they can "clean up the ball" and provide you with the same shot to repeat again and again until you can develop consistency. You don't want them varying speed and spin and throwing off your timing/learning process. This little story reminds me of the last time I had the chance to hit with a "great blocker" where I could practice re-looping (i think i made it as far as 6-8 times in a row, i don't think i had the consistency to do ten). It was a 1900+ player who had very good control. And don't get me wrong, the guy can certainly rip the ball, but he also happens to have the consistency and control to place good ball after good ball. I figured it made more sense for me to ask him to practice something specific than to play a game. Playing a game is a waste of his time; at least blocking my loops, he gets to practice his control against erratic amounts of spin.[ |
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