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Critique my game #3 |
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2337 |
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Posted: 02/17/2012 at 12:28pm |
My back hurt just from looking at that video. But I can see the relevance to developing a powerful loop.
Good find.
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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L2Pivot
Member Joined: 12/19/2011 Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Second this. Your large backswing is causing you to go off balance meaning that you are only limited to your arm to make a decent stroke. What you want to do is to make your hitting area (or 'power pocket' if you've seen any of Brian Pace's videos ) further in front of you. This means you can use more of your body mass to pile speed onto the ball. Take Zhang Jike's backswing for example. No matter how high the ball is, he still winds it up somewhere near his knee. That way, he ensures he always hits the ball in front of him with the most power possible: Or you can always switch to a Euro forehand and chicken-wing it relatively risk-free. |
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V-Griper
Silver Member Joined: 09/19/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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FH loop mechanics- The follow through on your stroke is causing your CG to shift to the back limit. You seem to be on the verge of falling off balance at he end of almost every shot. No doubt this has a big impact on your recovery time as you are using valuable time recovering your balance. I think part of the reason for this is because you are using a lot of muscles in your shoulder and upper arm to generate power for the swing instead of the legs and torso. A suggestion that may help is to "fold" at hip more. Make the angle formed by the right shoulder, hip and knee more acute on the back swing... Hold on. Just look at this vid of a kettle bell swing and imagine it is your loop stroke. Pay attention to the shoulder, hip and knee coordination. By the way this is how I weight train for my loop. Works really well because swinging the weight makes your more aware of momentum during the stroke. If you were swinging a weight the way you normally loop you would quickly realize how your stroke is taking you off balance. If you try this make sure you do not use a heavy weight to begin with(no more than 10-15lbs or 5-7kgs). Swing starts at 1:20. Edited by V-Griper - 02/18/2012 at 3:25pm |
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seguso
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 1619 |
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You have improved a lot since the first video, to the point you look like a different player. Forehand is good but it seems you could use your body a bit more. It looks like you think a lot before starting the swing. The racket also seems better, now it seems to have dwell. The pace of the game is very slow. I would like to see your recovery time against a close-to-table blocker with inverted rubbers. In general I'd like to see you against a good push-blocker. And I'd like to see you in fast rallies, to see how you change from forehand to backhand and viceversa. Kudos for the improvement! :) |
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pg5x - mxd fh & bh - 2015 video
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dingyibvs
Gold Member Joined: 05/09/2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 1401 |
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Thanks for all the encouragement and advice! My second day at the tournament didn't go so well, didn't win a match. In fact, I'm kinda embarrassed that I didn't even win a single set :( I really shoulda beaten the lowest rated player I played on Sunday, an 1875 guy, but I do tend to struggle vs. his style(control player), as they tend to discover my weak backhand quickly and force everything there effective. If I step around, they'd hit wide to my FH, and right now I just don't have the consistency to overpower them. Anyhow, with my best win being against an 1810 guy and my worst loss being to an 1875 guy, I expect my initial rating to be somewhere around there.
Anyhow, I'll try to record another one soon and see if I can get some more advice! BTW, working on recovery has really helped me quite a bit in FH rallies, I'm gonna have to get my BH up to speed and then work BH recovery and FH/BH transitions into my game more.
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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Swiff
Platinum Member Joined: 06/09/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2587 |
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Seems like you're playing pretty good! You're forehand seems very consistent. :)
I agree with an above post that the recovery speed of your forehand attacks needs work. I imagine if some players block your 3rd ball forehand loop quickly you'll have trouble hitting the next ball. Anyway, keep it up! :D |
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strikewzen
Beginner Joined: 12/23/2011 Status: Offline Points: 80 |
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at the same time during backswing, might as well hop into a better position by the standard 2 step to create optimal arm span, so you don't get squeezed playing with forearm only
and someone with your power output might consider using a much slower rubber against club players if you hit an outright winners... you miss out the practice, which you will need against pros someday i think you have what it takes to be pro... just need good coach man |
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dingyibvs
Gold Member Joined: 05/09/2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 1401 |
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Zhang Jike has a pretty compact motion, but Ma Long has a pretty long stroke when he's not up against the table like in the video. In contrast, I think the modern game actually favors a longer stroke, but our definitions of modern might be different since I'm still pretty young and back-in-the-days to me is the 90's.
I've definitely worked on my recovery considerably the past couple of months. I haven't really gotten to the more forward motion part though. If you've read some of my other posts, you'd know that I prefer to work on one or two things at a time, and mostly I've been working on putting all parts of my game together fluidly since this video. I'm still in the process of integrating my BH strokes into my game, including transitioning between FH and BH. I do use more strokes that have a lot of forward motion right now, akin to the one I used in my earlier videos, but I don't have anything really in between right now. I hadn't really worked on my FH looping vs. topspin in quite a while until very recently, because I identified the opening loop as the most important aspect at my level. I mean, how often do you see low level players being able to warm-up like a champ and then get into the game and struggle to land a single loop? Heck, take the 1450 player I played today, I swear the guy looped like he was 2000 during warmups, and then the game started and he couldn't loop worth shiz. I think he only managed one sucessful opening loop the whole match, and that was a weak one that I drove right back. Even now, I try to work on my opening loop from both wings whenever I can. Recently though, I've been playing at a club with many 2000+ level players, and they don't give weak blocks back when I land an opening loop, so I've had a lot of practice with quicker recovery and counter-looping(still not good enough to really use in games unless the incoming loops are weak). I'll have to record a new one soon to judge my progress.
Edited by dingyibvs - 01/08/2012 at 2:59am |
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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IanMcg
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2011 Location: Somehere Status: Offline Points: 1151 |
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You have a very good loop, but as the others said you need to recover faster
What I learned to do is think of the recovery as part of the stroke (thanks to whoever told me that-I can't quite remember) And it does work! |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Hi,
Great game and congratulations on your success so far. If I may be so bold, I would make a couple of comments. 1) In terms of recovery, I think that what might help you is that if you make your recovery part of your full swing pattern. Notice here how Ma Long in practice is recovering with his full body after the stroke and the racket recovery plane is different from the forward hitting plane. The whole body including is hands comes back to the ready position as part of the overall pattern. So in terms of practice, it might help you to make sure that when you recover, you are recovering into the neutral position using a different plane of recovery. However, the body is still turning. You would not be just dropping the blade. Maintaining unity of motion is critical to creating the smooth flow that you are seeking. 2) This may be controversial but I believe that your swing is too long for the modern game. I think it would help you if you can shorten the swing but still maintaining your great feel and spin by accelerating into the ball using a complete release of your full body after compressing it during the preparation stage. Again, Zhang Jike and Ma Long videos is helpful. Both loop strokes have a more forward with tremendous acceleration (super human speed), and recoveries are effortlessly quick probably because relax the body very quickly after contact. Of course, there are many players that have longer swings and if you can recover quickly enough, it doesn't really matter. But I've been taught that the modern game does suggest shorter strokes. Hope this helps somewhat. And thanks for sharing some great videos!
Edited by richrf - 01/08/2012 at 2:07am |
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dingyibvs
Gold Member Joined: 05/09/2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 1401 |
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Thanks for the congrats! I was having some doubts when I lost the first set of the first match and was down 8-10 in the second. I really struggled getting my mindset right, as I was super uptight in the beginning, then I tried to think about other things to calm my nerves and I became completely distracted. I'd say I ended up playing at around the same level as in the video, even though I've improved considerably since then.
My opponent does play with LP's, Grass D. Tecs, on his BH. Haven't played against him or any other LP player since the club in the video shut down a few weeks ago, almost forgot how to play it today! I was indeed playing with 2 red rubbers in the video, since I was searching for rubbers to match my new blade(back then, the Sanwei F3) and the two that worked the best together were both red. I'm using the setup in my sig now, just got the T64 last week :)
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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tpgh2k
Platinum Member Joined: 09/14/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2103 |
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lol are you using 2 red rubbers??
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www.youtube.com/gsutabletennis
Timo Boll Spirit FL H3 Blue Sponge Black FH Tenergy 64 Red BH |
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kickass
Super Member Joined: 11/02/2011 Status: Offline Points: 344 |
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did your opponent in the video have pips (LP?) in the backhand?
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Congrats. So you are now at least 1800! Lose tomorrow and you get placed somewhere in between your lowest loss and a highest win.
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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Congratulations on the group win; taking down a US1800+ player in your first tournament is tremendous!
Good luck in the U2300; pull off a big upset win! |
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dingyibvs
Gold Member Joined: 05/09/2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 1401 |
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Played in my first tournament today! As luck would have it, Shek happened to be in my group. It felt good beating him in a real tournament :D
Since it was my first tournament, I couldn't advance past the group stage, but I did beat the everyone in my group, including the highest rated guy in my category(U-1900), an 1800+ guy. I felt like I was too nervous and played too stiff, and I had way too much trouble than I should have against the 1800 guy and Shek(handled the 3rd guy, some 1450 player, pretty easily). Tomorrow I'll play in the U-2300, where I'll no doubt get destroyed, but there'll be no pressure so I can just play loose at least!
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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ejmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 08/09/2009 Location: madrid Status: Offline Points: 2609 |
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the rafa nadal top spin dingy just works to your partner.
it is not good to play tennis instead of table tennis. maybe it is fun but try your partner and you to concentrate a little more to be more competitive. |
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EJ Club.
MM T05(fh)/Srvfx(bh); InfVps,LSW,Viscaria,RwV,TBAlc,PG7,yextsc,yeo. EJmaster wood. |
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dalamchops
Platinum Member Joined: 11/30/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2272 |
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haven't a tighter serve will help your game tremendously. Contact point is too high.
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Stiga Titanium 5.4 Cpen
Andro Hexer Pips 2.1 Donic Acuda S2 Max |
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delfam
Beginner Joined: 08/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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ok, saw the backhand in that video. It's pretty good but you need to feel like your pushing outwards with the bh and then flick the wrist. Looks like your using your arm and swinging to much, going in like a circular motion. Should me more of a slight arc than a looping motion.
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rpbnakata
Super Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Status: Offline Points: 454 |
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First thing I noticed was the same esnift did: your recovering time after forehanding is too long. You should stroke and be ready in position again right after that. And your legs+hips are slightly stiff. Do the same ZJK does: bounce togheter with the ball.
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Phenom st/BW3/Ω3Euro ● Photino st/Ω4Pro/R7S ● Speed 90 fl/Vega Euro/S3
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dingyibvs
Gold Member Joined: 05/09/2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 1401 |
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lol, I wish antiperspirants were the answer! I bring like 5 headbands to the club each time, and I run through them all in 4 hours The trick is really to wear a ping pong specific shirt, as they're much more breathable and sweat doesn't show. I agree I hit too late, I think it ties into my entire FH mechanics. The slow return to ready position forces me to take the ball late, for one. The upward motion also favors taking the ball late, while a more forward motion would favor taking the ball a bit early. I don't now if it's because of my upward looping motion that I take the ball late, or it's because I'm not ready in time that I favor an upward motion. Maybe it's just a vicious cycle, but I'm gonna work on both at the same time to make sure that's taken care of. Delfam: I think the observation that I don't have a great feel for the ball is very right...my motions just don't look fluid in general. Hopefully you're right that it'll come with time. I've only been playing for a year really(in my pre-teen years I played some at school with friends so I wasn't quite starting at 0), and I've been adjusting my technique and unfortunately also equipment quite often, so it's been tough to be comfortable around the table. As for my BH, I actually used to attack almost everything that comes that way. You can see that especially well in the 2nd and 3rd video in the 2nd "Critique my game" thread. I don't play matches to win, per se, I play them for practice purposes. During the time of my 2nd "Critique" thread, I was focusing on improving my BH. Right now, I'm focusing on footwork and getting comfortable with my revamped FH.
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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delfam
Beginner Joined: 08/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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kinda mechanical and doesn't seem you have a good feel for the game in general, but I guess that'll come in time. Not very light on your feet.
You do need a backhand loop though. You just push it everytime and in times when you have the advantage you have to go on the attack which you can't do it seems on your backhand.
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assiduous
Platinum Member Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
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Two things:
First, and more important, use antiperspirant of some kind; this is gross, and I wouldn't wana play near you. Second, your FH, even though pretty good with respect to speed and % on the table, is coming a bit late. I keep getting the feeling that the ball is about to pass you and you definitely missed it this time, but somehow you manage to swing just on time and make it. I feel you shouldn't wait so much.
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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dingyibvs
Gold Member Joined: 05/09/2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 1401 |
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Yea, I'm still afraid of missing, so I kind of finish upward more than forward, I'm gonna start trying to finish my motion a bit more forward now.
Yes, I'm playing with the setup in my sig, and yes the moon is quite a bit quicker, less effort is needed to extract speed out of it, which is why I'm keeping it on my BH. On full speed strikes the moon offers little speed advantage but has less spin and dwell. As an aside on equipment, I think the F3/T88-I combo is extremely good for someone learning a FH stroke, as it's very soft(the blade is ayous-basswood-carbokev-kiri construction) and pretty flexible. Amazing control near and off the table, and great power if I can get a full swing, which unfortunately, I didn't execute a single one of in my 2 videos. After I learn how to extract power better on my own, I'll switch to a harder, 5-ply wood blade my cousin recommended me(Hurricane H-WN, KLH/P500/OC structure), so I have some crispness in the closer to the table attacks. He also recommended me using H3P 39 on FH and Donic F1 on BH, so I might switch rubbers to that too. As for the 2 red rubbers, I didn't get a sheet of black Moon 38 until yesterday, so I had to play with 2 red rubbers that day. I do have a bit trouble of keeping spinny services short, but against this opponent I intentionally served long with little spin to counter his LP returns. |
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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You are definetly improving and members have given you good advice, I would suggest you add in some more variety in your serves which all tend to go long, it may have suited this game as your opponent didn't attack too many giving you a good chance of looping third ball,
but against better players that may attack your long serve it won't be as effective, so some two bounce serves and using the angles better
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
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Stoi
Super Member Joined: 09/09/2006 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 302 |
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Is your equipment on your signature the one you used to play this game? I think your bh is faster then your fh. Also you have two red rubbers?!?
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Kashuken
Member Joined: 06/18/2006 Location: Philadelphia Status: Offline Points: 92 |
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@dingyibvs you have very good consistent loop but I noticed that your elbow ends up too high. IMHO this is (partially) because you are looping more upward instead of more forward. See if you can get a feeling of throwing your hand (as if you are drawing a circle) instead of elbow for your forehand loops.
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dingyibvs
Gold Member Joined: 05/09/2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 1401 |
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Thanks folks! Yea the slow return to ready position is quite a problem for me, gives me a lot of trouble when the opponent returns the ball back very quickly, I'll definitely have to correct that. I think it'll help if I loosen up a bit. I have some BH flicks, but my FH flicks are in the early development phase still, I only used it once in the matches I posted, I think. This particular opponent, Shek, plays me pretty often obviously so he knows that very well. If you'll notice, he almost never serves to my BH side, because he knows that long or short, it'll be attacked(he did it so rarely it sometimes caught me off guard in the two matches I posted). If he can serve it short to my FH though, he knows I can only push, which is why he almost always serves short(or at least try to) to my FH. He actually used to serve almost exclusively to my BH, the man adapts quickly!
I think this'll be the last vid I post of me against this guy, I'll try to record myself against better, more aggressive players next time. My club is in Miami, seems to be run by mostly people from Hong Kong? Those flags do suggest Taiwan though!
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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esnift
Super Member Joined: 04/16/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 405 |
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You're game is looking good. The only feedback I would give is that when you hit a forehand loop, your momentum seems to pause at the end of your stroke like you don't expect the ball to come back (which it didn't most of the time ). Once you start playing opponents that can return a loop, you might be in a precarious situation if the end-of-stroke-pause becomes a habit. Just bring it back to ready position after a big loop.
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YE
Hurricane III Tenergy 05fx |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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So many 清天白日满地红. Where's your club located?
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