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Topic ClosedPushblocker vs. Cho Yoon Je (KOR)

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pushblocker vs. Cho Yoon Je (KOR)
    Posted: 01/21/2011 at 2:08pm
Okay, enough. This is ridiculous. At the risk of stepping on the toes of "videos" mods, I'm closing this thread. They can re-open it if they think it's really necessary.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 2:08pm
who r u?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

Jonan get me fired frmo my job cuz im talking smack to you?

Your funny LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.

Keep talking like your some internet thug that can do anything in real life.  Keep playing ur fake ass long pips which u dont even reverse spin with k?

You sound awfully familiar to me... In which part of Canada are you currently playing?  What is your name?  Beat any known high-level U.S. player recently?  I am almost sure I know who you are...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 2:06pm
ahhhh haha.  wow dropping 160 at his age is pretty drastic.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Thinking of canadians.. I recently beat the #39 of Canada (#1196 in the World and high 2700 Canadian Rating) at the Teams.. You probably know Bryan Michaud... Bryan did beat John Wetzler last year but lost to me this year.. Bryan actually has a excellent record against long pips blockers, beating 2 of the best in the last years (Robert Shahnazari and John Wetzler). I was VERY surprised that I was able to beat him..

Wow thats a very good win.  2700 putting back into u.,s im guessing wud be 2250 about based on my buddys rating.  My buddy is uh 2975 i think and hes 2380?

but yeah bryan is a very good win.  I remember i saw him play this hueg provincial tournament back wen i was just starting to play.  Bright junior player with a hueg future ahead.  But for some reason, wen he hit about 2700, he plateued.  I heard some ppl said he stopped practicing as intense which is sad because he had enourmous potential to succeed.

However, he is still a VERY good player and wow thats a good win
Bryan actually had a rating above US 2300 for about 1 year.. Unfortunately (for me and for him), he dropped 160 points one tournament before I played him :(
 
He used to be consistently above US 2300 before than..   Instead of making 30 points against him, I only made 7 :(
 
BTW, my match against Bryan is on youtube.. Just do a  search for Mader Michaud and you'll find the match..


Edited by Pushblocker - 01/21/2011 at 2:07pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 2:03pm
Jonan get me fired frmo my job cuz im talking smack to you?

Your funny LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.

Keep talking like your some internet thug that can do anything in real life.  Keep playing ur fake ass long pips which u dont even reverse spin with k?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

 Jonan, you clearly have no knowledge of long pips cuz ur a stupid idiot that sees things in a way nobody does.

If long pips, sponge or no sponge was able to loop 5-7 feet from the table what the hell would we need inverted rubbers for. 

do you even know what spin your long pips will get after looping with them?  

You're clearly a fricking idiot that doesn;t know anything their talking about.  LONG PIPS CANNOT DO WHAT INVERTED DOES DUMBASS.  Say u chop with inverted off a underspin ball frmo ur opponent , then your ball will go back underspin (unless u don't even know how to chop).

IF U CHOP WITH LONG PIPS OFF A UNDERSPIN BALL, ur shot will go back close to nospin and maybe a LITTLE bit of topspin.

UR stupid jonan, please don;t say u play long pips because if u honestly do, it just further proves how stupid you are.

Do your homework of long pips, and then come talk to me

Your just lucky you don't live near me, I'd slash your tires or get you fired from your job for talking to me like that, I've done it before for less. 

You're the ones who's clueless about the differences in long pip rubbers. The pip length, stiffness, friction and sponge thickness, lack of sponge and even blade change how it plays DRASTICALLY. Long pips like 755 are nothing like Grass D-tech which are nothing like P1-R which is nothing like Pogo. You can do totally different things with those pips. You CANT generalize strategies to all long pips just based on that they are a long pip, because the person will use them differently and they all require different strategies to use and play against.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Thinking of canadians.. I recently beat the #39 of Canada (#1196 in the World and high 2700 Canadian Rating) at the Teams.. You probably know Bryan Michaud... Bryan did beat John Wetzler last year but lost to me this year.. Bryan actually has a excellent record against long pips blockers, beating 2 of the best in the last years (Robert Shahnazari and John Wetzler). I was VERY surprised that I was able to beat him..

Wow thats a very good win.  2700 putting back into u.,s im guessing wud be 2250 about based on my buddys rating.  My buddy is uh 2975 i think and hes 2380?

but yeah bryan is a very good win.  I remember i saw him play this hueg provincial tournament back wen i was just starting to play.  Bright junior player with a hueg future ahead.  But for some reason, wen he hit about 2700, he plateued.  I heard some ppl said he stopped practicing as intense which is sad because he had enourmous potential to succeed.

However, he is still a VERY good player and wow thats a good win
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:26pm
The only thing i remember about the seemiller grip is they hold is so they can use the same rubber for forehand and backhand play.  However, becuz most of them have anti spin on the back, they can change and it's quite deceptive.

I saw Dan Semiller SR absoluetly tear my team apart and a lot of the junior players he brings from indiana or train are very good players too.

Weird style but Dan Semiller has had immense success back in the day playing this say


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:25pm
Thinking of canadians.. I recently beat the #39 of Canada (#1196 in the World and high 2700 Canadian Rating) at the Teams.. You probably know Bryan Michaud... Bryan did beat John Wetzler last year but lost to me this year.. Bryan actually has a excellent record against long pips blockers, beating 2 of the best in the last years (Robert Shahnazari and John Wetzler). I was VERY surprised that I was able to beat him..

Edited by Pushblocker - 01/21/2011 at 1:26pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

ahhh haha ic. 

during that tournament, i remember i was playing 2 tables away from him.  A lot of the ppl i saw around used the seemiller grip.

John used the seemiller grip too right?
I don't know about John and the Seemiller grip.. There are several really strong guys from PA who  use the Seemiller grip. They always play at the Teams...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

Anton, How could i possibly think that the exceptions r stupid?  I pointed out examples by myself.  The only things i called stupid was the ppl that kept saying that it will DEFINITELY not reverse the spin.  That is one thing i definitely called stupid.

Im not the only one confused here (i dont even see how im confused but u think so) because u clearly don't interpret my posts well.

I said the general rule is reverse except for some situations and strokes and i even point out the situations.

Also, I already said, my tone might make me really rude but i'm not earnestly insulting any1. 

anywayss, theres no point argueing about that because ur gonna say im rude and im just gonna keep saying i don't really mean that.

Also, im just putting an examle of 200-300.  Thats just a general rating.  this rating could go up to 5-600.  Im sure we've all seen upsets where say 2200 player lsoes to a 1600 player because the 1600 player could have been underrated or he was completely on his game, confidant playing agaisnt the higher rated player's style and the higher rated player was not playing well.

and quite honestly, I think i would qualify as 2000 usatt rating and i don';t think thats HIGH AT ALL.

I won u-1800 division 2 years ago wen i thought i was completely garbage in pensylvania.  Im much, mnuch better now and i think 2000 would be my lvl.

Now all of u r gonna go ahead and reply to my posts sayin im being cocky becuz i think im 2000.

2000 in my mind is absolutely nothing.  Players that are qualified as "good" shud be a minimal of 2200.  

Improving players always strive for high goals.  If i'm ever fortunate enough to get to 2200, im gonna think 2200 is garbage and 2400 is what i wanna be.  That applies for every1 im sure.

If everybody is offended by my posts then ill say I'M SORRY


I didn't say you were cocky because you implied you're around 2000. I said I doubt you're around 2000 because you're so cocky. There is a difference.

I think I'm interpreting your posts fine, it's just that you're quite inconsistent in your claims. If I quote from one post, you suggest one thing. If I quote from another, you suggest a different thing. This is why I claim you're "confused"... or perhaps you're just a poor communicator. The more I think about it, I think the issue is the latter. But whatever...

One thing I do agree with is that this argument has become pointless. I, for one, do appreciate the apology (although I know it was directed generally and not to me, but still...). Irrespective of the long pip discussion/issues, my primary concern is your initial lack of civility. But you seem willing to chill out and hopefully you can continue to conduct yourself consistently in such a manner. Thumbs Up


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:22pm
ahhh haha ic. 

during that tournament, i remember i was playing 2 tables away from him.  A lot of the ppl i saw around used the seemiller grip.

John used the seemiller grip too right?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

Haha speaking of John Wetzler, i just looked at his great record at JOOLA North American (that tournament on baltimore i think).

At least my friend got some revenge for me.  Colin Greenidge beat him :)
 
John has been above 2300 for a very long time.. He is one of the most consistent long pips blockers in the country.. probably the most consistent one.. He did have a bad tournament at the teams as he also lost to Jonathan Ou (a aspiring junior) who plays at my club..
 
Colin actually played on the team with another guy from my club... Andrew Slocombe!!


Edited by Pushblocker - 01/21/2011 at 1:22pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

I completely agree PB.  Some people may have misinterpreted my posts buti 've been saying that the whole time.

If you look at the abundance of LP players playing tournaments today almost nobody uses very grippy long pips rubbers.

and i know John Wetzler.  I played against him in erie once as a practice game after he finished playing the rest of my team.  He did extremely well and was a VERY good player.  He beat my buddy who is a provincial player down in Canada and im sure that his style would probably beat me at that time too.  Im just hoping that i would fare better playing him now although i don't exactly remember how he plays.

Just remember he was great defensively
 
John has a great chop-block (as opposed to my push-block) and he has a great forehand.. If John pushes against underspin, the ball will come back either dead or with slight underspin.. His pips don't reverse well.. He uses a chop motion when blocking topspin to continue the spin. I personally use quite a different technique.. John achieves great underspin against topspin due to his chop motion when he blocks and I achieve heavy underspin by taking the ball right off the bounce.. I take the ball much earlier than John. John chop blocks at the table and I push-block over the table.. I don't let the ball come to me.. I go to the ball whenever possible. I have to prevent players from exploiting my one-sidedness. John doesn't have to worry about as his forehand is very strong! If I can get to the ball over the table, I prevent my opponents from moving me too much. As soon as a opponent is able to move me, I'm usually in trouble... However, very few can get me away from the table..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:15pm
Haha speaking of John Wetzler, i just looked at his great record at JOOLA North American (that tournament on baltimore i think).

At least my friend got some revenge for me.  Colin Greenidge beat him :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:13pm
I completely agree PB.  Some people may have misinterpreted my posts buti 've been saying that the whole time.

If you look at the abundance of LP players playing tournaments today almost nobody uses very grippy long pips rubbers.

and i know John Wetzler.  I played against him in erie once as a practice game after he finished playing the rest of my team.  He did extremely well and was a VERY good player.  He beat my buddy who is a provincial player down in Canada and im sure that his style would probably beat me at that time too.  Im just hoping that i would fare better playing him now although i don't exactly remember how he plays.

Just remember he was great defensively
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:


Thank you.  Now the ppl that'll keep telling me that you won't reverse the ball will finally understand sigh
 
There are just a vast selection of long pips on the market and there are long pips that almost act like short pips and will generate chop when pushing but most blockers at the table use low friction pips which will usually produce dead balls or topspin against underspin.. However, like I said, it depends on the material used and blockers USUALLY use the lowest friction pips available.. I only know one blocker who uses a very grippy long pips rubbers (Phantom 007) and that would be John-Mark Wetzler.. All the other top long pips blockers use low friciton pips..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:10pm
Now I know who's clueless. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:07pm
Anton, How could i possibly think that the exceptions r stupid?  I pointed out examples by myself.  The only things i called stupid was the ppl that kept saying that it will DEFINITELY not reverse the spin.  That is one thing i definitely called stupid.

Im not the only one confused here (i dont even see how im confused but u think so) because u clearly don't interpret my posts well.

I said the general rule is reverse except for some situations and strokes and i even point out the situations.

Also, I already said, my tone might make me really rude but i'm not earnestly insulting any1. 

anywayss, theres no point argueing about that because ur gonna say im rude and im just gonna keep saying i don't really mean that.

Also, im just putting an examle of 200-300.  Thats just a general rating.  this rating could go up to 5-600.  Im sure we've all seen upsets where say 2200 player lsoes to a 1600 player because the 1600 player could have been underrated or he was completely on his game, confidant playing agaisnt the higher rated player's style and the higher rated player was not playing well.

and quite honestly, I think i would qualify as 2000 usatt rating and i don';t think thats HIGH AT ALL.

I won u-1800 division 2 years ago wen i thought i was completely garbage in pensylvania.  Im much, mnuch better now and i think 2000 would be my lvl.

Now all of u r gonna go ahead and reply to my posts sayin im being cocky becuz i think im 2000.

2000 in my mind is absolutely nothing.  Players that are qualified as "good" shud be a minimal of 2200.  

Improving players always strive for high goals.  If i'm ever fortunate enough to get to 2200, im gonna think 2200 is garbage and 2400 is what i wanna be.  That applies for every1 im sure.

If everybody is offended by my posts then ill say I'M SORRY
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

Okay anton, theres clearly some miscommunication so let me fix this for you.

If you read my posts, (which i'm sure you did) I already said that the general rule of LP is thati t will reverse the spin.  Let me go copy and paste that:

"LONG PIPS's spin depends on the ball you're receiving AND GENERALLY reverses the spin except in certain strokes."

Okay, so we have that cleared no?

Next, i already said that a much loewr rated player can be beat high lvled long pips player if they understand LP.  Ill copy and paste that for you as well:

"I've seen them upset high rated players and lose to low rated players ALL THE TIME." (Page 10)

It is no different in my case.  Ill clear this up right now, I am not saying im better than any1 here. What i'm trying to say is, i understand the theory of long pips so there is a possible chance of upset.

anton, what's your usatt rating?  I'm sure that by all means you have beaten players that are 200-300 rating aboev you before.  It might not mean fluke but rather you play particularly well against that style or they weren't playing their game while you definitely were.

This thread is not a matter of who is better and who's not.  It's just the concept of understanding LP

And one last thing, Although my tone might be rude i don't mean disrespect to any1.  If you look up in my posts, i didn't even start the "name calling" until Jonan started.  I said his post was stupid and he was completely clueless.  I dont think that falls under name calling.

AFTER, he posted his second post with name calling, i lit off



You are correct--there is some miscommunication. However, I would argue that it is stemming from the confusion in your own mind, as demonstrated in this post.

First, you say, "LONG PIPS's spin depends on the ball you're receiving AND GENERALLY reverses the spin except in certain strokes." This implies that you're open to the possibility that it is GENERAL and that there are exceptions. Yet when someone points out an exception, you call their comment stupid and suggest they're clueless. Yes, that is confusing and I see how it could lead to "miscommunication".

Second, are you really suggesting that you don't understand how calling someone's statement "stupid" and saying they're "clueless" about something is insulting? I will concede that it's not specifically "name-calling" but you're utterly missing the point. The issue isn't specifically name-calling, it's being rude, which you don't seem to understand.

Third, beating someone "
200-300 rating aboev" you would still make you 2000-2100, which is still a higher level player. So you are suggesting that you're a higher level player, which I will still doubt because very few people who are really good at... anything become so reactive and rude when discussing their area of expertise. Granted, there are exceptions and perhaps you're one of them.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:50pm
Okay anton, theres clearly some miscommunication so let me fix this for you.

If you read my posts, (which i'm sure you did) I already said that the general rule of LP is thati t will reverse the spin.  Let me go copy and paste that:

"LONG PIPS's spin depends on the ball you're receiving AND GENERALLY reverses the spin except in certain strokes."

Okay, so we have that cleared no?

Next, i already said that a much loewr rated player can be beat high lvled long pips player if they understand LP.  Ill copy and paste that for you as well:

"I've seen them upset high rated players and lose to low rated players ALL THE TIME." (Page 10)

It is no different in my case.  Ill clear this up right now, I am not saying im better than any1 here. What i'm trying to say is, i understand the theory of long pips so there is a possible chance of upset.

anton, what's your usatt rating?  I'm sure that by all means you have beaten players that are 200-300 rating aboev you before.  It might not mean fluke but rather you play particularly well against that style or they weren't playing their game while you definitely were.

This thread is not a matter of who is better and who's not.  It's just the concept of understanding LP

And one last thing, Although my tone might be rude i don't mean disrespect to any1.  If you look up in my posts, i didn't even start the "name calling" until Jonan started.  I said his post was stupid and he was completely clueless.  I dont think that falls under name calling.

AFTER, he posted his second post with name calling, i lit off.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Originally posted by Anton Chigurh Anton Chigurh wrote:

Originally posted by PanPong PanPong wrote:


... I suppose you mean push, in which case with proper technique it should still be backspin.


+1

I play with a couple people who use LPs on their backhand. When they push a backspin ball, it comes back with backspin. This shouldn't be a revelation to anyone. Wink




If you push heavy backspin to them, there's no way they can return a backspin to you. The most they can do is rub the spin off and give you a dead ball. And that requires a LPs with certain level of friction.

THIS RIGHT HERE, has been what i've been saying for the last 8 posts.  But i have no idea nobody believes this theory.  

Thank you so much zingyDNA


Okay... sorry guys, your strongly worded arguments have trumped my personal experience. It simply must be that when I play my LP friends at least once a week for the last 3 months a quantum wormhole is opening up causing the pips to defy physics. Ermm


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Originally posted by Anton Chigurh Anton Chigurh wrote:

Originally posted by PanPong PanPong wrote:


... I suppose you mean push, in which case with proper technique it should still be backspin.


+1

I play with a couple people who use LPs on their backhand. When they push a backspin ball, it comes back with backspin. This shouldn't be a revelation to anyone. Wink




If you push heavy backspin to them, there's no way they can return a backspin to you. The most they can do is rub the spin off and give you a dead ball. And that requires a LPs with certain level of friction.
 
It's difficult to generalize because of so many factors:
 
type and length of the pips, hardness and thickness of the sponge. If OX, then that's another can of worms.Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:



anton, like i said before.  I don't claim im a high lvl player by any means but just sum1 who understands long pips enough to beat them.

And i arleady said in my post that the general rule is the spin will reverse.  I ALSO said that if u are a high lvl long pips player and know more than just the basic strokes of LP, that rule might not apply.

When i use an unforgiving tone, i expect people to reply to me with an unforgiving tone as well.  However, if you're going to claim i made statements, read my post properly first



I didn't "claim you made statements", I quoted you... literally. I cut and pasted your comment into my post. It's not a claim, it's a demonstration.

This isn't Youtube where we all come to trash talk and instigate arguments into vicious crescendos of name-calling. If that is your conversational strategy and you refuse to alter it while communicating on this forum, then go somewhere else.

And you did claim to be higher level, stating that you beat a 2300 rated player, which is definitely high enough to be considered "high level" in most places. Or are we to believe it was a fluke? (That's rhetorical, btw.)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Originally posted by Anton Chigurh Anton Chigurh wrote:

Originally posted by PanPong PanPong wrote:


... I suppose you mean push, in which case with proper technique it should still be backspin.


+1

I play with a couple people who use LPs on their backhand. When they push a backspin ball, it comes back with backspin. This shouldn't be a revelation to anyone. Wink




If you push heavy backspin to them, there's no way they can return a backspin to you. The most they can do is rub the spin off and give you a dead ball. And that requires a LPs with certain level of friction.

THIS RIGHT HERE, has been what i've been saying for the last 8 posts.  But i have no idea nobody believes this theory.  

Thank you so much zingyDNA
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by debraj debraj wrote:

ZJKandMLfan: GOOD. you have learnt the basic about LPs.

Now you need to work on different types of LPs, and different players, and resultant possibilities in spin.... as your advanced lesson. Smile
 
I think he needs to learn manners first and foremost. Social Engineering 101.Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by Anton Chigurh Anton Chigurh wrote:

Originally posted by PanPong PanPong wrote:


... I suppose you mean push, in which case with proper technique it should still be backspin.


+1

I play with a couple people who use LPs on their backhand. When they push a backspin ball, it comes back with backspin. This shouldn't be a revelation to anyone. Wink




If you push heavy backspin to them, there's no way they can return a backspin to you. The most they can do is rub the spin off and give you a dead ball. And that requires a LPs with certain level of friction.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:40pm
I was only stating the basics for the people that kept saying that long pips will not reverse the spin by any means.

Thanks for your "lesson" though
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:37pm
ZJKandMLfan: GOOD. you have learnt the basic about LPs.

Now you need to work on different types of LPs, and different players, and resultant possibilities in spin.... as your advanced lesson. Smile
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